[xwiki-devs] [VOTE] Hide Office Importer Features when the OOo server isn't running
Hi Devs, right now an user can go to the Office Importer page and try uploading a file even when the backend OOo server isn't running. This leads to usability issues. Thus I'd like to send a vote on the following 2 items: - On the Office Importer page, add the following message: - "You cannot import an Office document since the conversion server has not been started. Please ask an administrator to get it started for you." - If the current user is an admin, the message should read: "You cannot import an Office document since the OpenOffice server has not been started yet. You can start the OpenOffice server and manage it from this page (link to the OOo server administration page)." - In the action bar: add a check to see whether the OOo server is running and don't display the link if the OOo server is not. Here's my +1 to both. Guillaume -- Guillaume Lerouge Product Manager - XWiki Skype: wikibc Twitter: glerouge http://guillaumelerouge.com/
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume@xwiki.com>wrote:
Hi Devs, right now an user can go to the Office Importer page and try uploading a file even when the backend OOo server isn't running. This leads to usability issues. Thus I'd like to send a vote on the following 2 items:
- On the Office Importer page, add the following message: -
"You cannot import an Office document since the conversion server has not been started. Please ask an administrator to get it started for you."
-
If the current user is an admin, the message should read: "You cannot import an Office document since the OpenOffice server has not been started yet. You can start the OpenOffice server and manage it from this page (link to the OOo server administration page)."
-
In the action bar: add a check to see whether the OOo server is running and don't display the link if the OOo server is not.
Here's my +1 to both.
+1 Thanks. - Asiri
Guillaume
-- Guillaume Lerouge Product Manager - XWiki Skype: wikibc Twitter: glerouge http://guillaumelerouge.com/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:22, Guillaume Lerouge<guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Devs, right now an user can go to the Office Importer page and try uploading a file even when the backend OOo server isn't running. This leads to usability issues. Thus I'd like to send a vote on the following 2 items:
- On the Office Importer page, add the following message: -
"You cannot import an Office document since the conversion server has not been started. Please ask an administrator to get it started for you."
-
If the current user is an admin, the message should read: "You cannot import an Office document since the OpenOffice server has not been started yet. You can start the OpenOffice server and manage it from this page (link to the OOo server administration page)."
-
In the action bar: add a check to see whether the OOo server is running and don't display the link if the OOo server is not.
Here's my +1 to both.
+1
Guillaume
-- Guillaume Lerouge Product Manager - XWiki Skype: wikibc Twitter: glerouge http://guillaumelerouge.com/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
On Aug 7, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi Devs, right now an user can go to the Office Importer page and try uploading a file even when the backend OOo server isn't running. This leads to usability issues. Thus I'd like to send a vote on the following 2 items:
- On the Office Importer page, add the following message: -
"You cannot import an Office document since the conversion server has not been started. Please ask an administrator to get it started for you."
-
If the current user is an admin, the message should read: "You cannot import an Office document since the OpenOffice server has not been started yet. You can start the OpenOffice server and manage it from this page (link to the OOo server administration page)."
+1
-
In the action bar: add a check to see whether the OOo server is running and don't display the link if the OOo server is not.
-0 I'm not a big fan of magically hiding things. How will a user know there's an office import feature? I prefer that the menu entry stays and the page explains that the office importer is not started. I'd like to add a new behavior though (if it's not already done): - if the office importer app is not installed (we can test for the main office importer page availability) then the menu entry shouldn't appear. Thanks -Vincent
Hi, I'd like to add a new behavior though (if it's not already done):
- if the office importer app is not installed (we can test for the main office importer page availability) then the menu entry shouldn't appear.
Yes, this is already implemented. Thanks. - Asiri
Thanks -Vincent
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Hi, On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Vincent Massol <vincent@massol.net> wrote:
On Aug 7, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi Devs, right now an user can go to the Office Importer page and try uploading a file even when the backend OOo server isn't running. This leads to usability issues. Thus I'd like to send a vote on the following 2 items:
- On the Office Importer page, add the following message: -
"You cannot import an Office document since the conversion server has not been started. Please ask an administrator to get it started for you."
-
If the current user is an admin, the message should read: "You cannot import an Office document since the OpenOffice server has not been started yet. You can start the OpenOffice server and manage it from this page (link to the OOo server administration page)."
+1
-
In the action bar: add a check to see whether the OOo server is running and don't display the link if the OOo server is not.
-0
I'm not a big fan of magically hiding things. How will a user know there's an office import feature? I prefer that the menu entry stays and the page explains that the office importer is not started.
That's basically the issue. If we leave the link, we build an user expectation. The expectation isn't fulfilled and the user is left to contact his/her administrator, which is frustrating. Additionally, under some circumstances the OOo server cannot be installed at all (this has happened at customer sites). The project manager is then left to explain why the server can't work and has to handle additional questions. Thus I think the user doesn't have to know that the feature exists if the administrator has not activated it. The question then becomes: how does the administrator knows that the feature exists? I can see 2 options: - Make the check be: "if the user isn't an admin & the server isn't running" so that admins know about the feature - Keep the check as it is and assume that admins that want to make the OOo server work will find out how since it's an often requested feature I'd like to add a new behavior though (if it's not already done):
- if the office importer app is not installed (we can test for the main office importer page availability) then the menu entry shouldn't appear.
The OOo app comes bundled by default with XE. It's always there by default. This option doesn't solve the user expectation issue. Guillaume
Thanks -Vincent
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-- Guillaume Lerouge Product Manager - XWiki Skype: wikibc Twitter: glerouge http://guillaumelerouge.com/
On Aug 7, 2009, at 11:52 AM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Vincent Massol <vincent@massol.net> wrote:
On Aug 7, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi Devs, right now an user can go to the Office Importer page and try uploading a file even when the backend OOo server isn't running. This leads to usability issues. Thus I'd like to send a vote on the following 2 items:
- On the Office Importer page, add the following message: -
"You cannot import an Office document since the conversion server has not been started. Please ask an administrator to get it started for you."
-
If the current user is an admin, the message should read: "You cannot import an Office document since the OpenOffice server has not been started yet. You can start the OpenOffice server and manage it from this page (link to the OOo server administration page)."
+1
-
In the action bar: add a check to see whether the OOo server is running and don't display the link if the OOo server is not.
-0
I'm not a big fan of magically hiding things. How will a user know there's an office import feature? I prefer that the menu entry stays and the page explains that the office importer is not started.
That's basically the issue. If we leave the link, we build an user expectation. The expectation isn't fulfilled and the user is left to contact his/her administrator, which is frustrating.
No it's good. It's the pb of the admin if he has forgotten to start it.
Additionally, under some circumstances the OOo server cannot be installed at all (this has happened at customer sites). The project manager is then left to explain why the server can't work and has to handle additional questions.
No: in this case the admin should remove the officeimporter app. Thanks -Vincent
Thus I think the user doesn't have to know that the feature exists if the administrator has not activated it. The question then becomes: how does the administrator knows that the feature exists? I can see 2 options:
- Make the check be: "if the user isn't an admin & the server isn't running" so that admins know about the feature - Keep the check as it is and assume that admins that want to make the OOo server work will find out how since it's an often requested feature
I'd like to add a new behavior though (if it's not already done):
- if the office importer app is not installed (we can test for the main office importer page availability) then the menu entry shouldn't appear.
The OOo app comes bundled by default with XE. It's always there by default. This option doesn't solve the user expectation issue.
Guillaume
Hi, On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent@massol.net> wrote:
On Aug 7, 2009, at 11:52 AM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Vincent Massol <vincent@massol.net> wrote:
On Aug 7, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi Devs, right now an user can go to the Office Importer page and try uploading a file even when the backend OOo server isn't running. This leads to usability issues. Thus I'd like to send a vote on the following 2 items:
- On the Office Importer page, add the following message: -
"You cannot import an Office document since the conversion server has not been started. Please ask an administrator to get it started for you."
-
If the current user is an admin, the message should read: "You cannot import an Office document since the OpenOffice server has not been started yet. You can start the OpenOffice server and manage it from this page (link to the OOo server administration page)."
+1
-
In the action bar: add a check to see whether the OOo server is running and don't display the link if the OOo server is not.
-0
I'm not a big fan of magically hiding things. How will a user know there's an office import feature? I prefer that the menu entry stays and the page explains that the office importer is not started.
That's basically the issue. If we leave the link, we build an user expectation. The expectation isn't fulfilled and the user is left to contact his/her administrator, which is frustrating.
No it's good. It's the pb of the admin if he has forgotten to start it.
Additionally, under some circumstances the OOo server cannot be installed at all (this has happened at customer sites). The project manager is then left to explain why the server can't work and has to handle additional questions.
No: in this case the admin should remove the officeimporter app.
The only drawback I see is that until we have an application manager it's a bit harder for the Admin to bring the application back after deleting it (he needs to re-install it instead of simply changing a configuration setting). But indeed, it's not a big drawback. The admin could also simply rename the page. Since the 3rd option (hide the menu if the application isn't installed) is already implemented, I think we can cancel the second part of the vote. Asiri, ping me if you need help for the message's wording. Guillaume Thanks
-Vincent
Thus I think the user doesn't have to know that the feature exists if the administrator has not activated it. The question then becomes: how does the administrator knows that the feature exists? I can see 2 options:
- Make the check be: "if the user isn't an admin & the server isn't running" so that admins know about the feature - Keep the check as it is and assume that admins that want to make the OOo server work will find out how since it's an often requested feature
I'd like to add a new behavior though (if it's not already done):
- if the office importer app is not installed (we can test for the main office importer page availability) then the menu entry shouldn't appear.
The OOo app comes bundled by default with XE. It's always there by default. This option doesn't solve the user expectation issue.
Guillaume
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Lerouge Product Manager - XWiki Skype: wikibc Twitter: glerouge http://guillaumelerouge.com/
Hi,
No: in this case the admin should remove the officeimporter app.
The only drawback I see is that until we have an application manager it's a bit harder for the Admin to bring the application back after deleting it (he needs to re-install it instead of simply changing a configuration setting).
But indeed, it's not a big drawback. The admin could also simply rename the page.
Since the 3rd option (hide the menu if the application isn't installed) is already implemented, I think we can cancel the second part of the vote.
Asiri, ping me if you need help for the message's wording.
I think we should extend this to display a message in officeimporter wysiwyg plugin's file upload tab if the openoffice server is not present. This is consistent with what we are going to do for officeimporter application. Related JIRA: http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XAOFFICE-25 I'm going to implement these changes by tomorrow. Please let me know if any of you are against it. Thanks. - Asiri
Guillaume
Thanks
-Vincent
Thus I think the user doesn't have to know that the feature exists if the administrator has not activated it. The question then becomes: how does the administrator knows that the feature exists? I can see 2 options:
- Make the check be: "if the user isn't an admin & the server isn't running" so that admins know about the feature - Keep the check as it is and assume that admins that want to make the OOo server work will find out how since it's an often requested feature
I'd like to add a new behavior though (if it's not already done):
- if the office importer app is not installed (we can test for the main office importer page availability) then the menu entry shouldn't appear.
The OOo app comes bundled by default with XE. It's always there by default. This option doesn't solve the user expectation issue.
Guillaume
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Lerouge Product Manager - XWiki Skype: wikibc Twitter: glerouge http://guillaumelerouge.com/ _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Sep 28, 2009, at 5:43 PM, Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
Hi,
No: in this case the admin should remove the officeimporter app.
The only drawback I see is that until we have an application manager it's a bit harder for the Admin to bring the application back after deleting it (he needs to re-install it instead of simply changing a configuration setting).
But indeed, it's not a big drawback. The admin could also simply rename the page.
Since the 3rd option (hide the menu if the application isn't installed) is already implemented, I think we can cancel the second part of the vote.
Asiri, ping me if you need help for the message's wording.
I think we should extend this to display a message in officeimporter wysiwyg plugin's file upload tab if the openoffice server is not present. This is consistent with what we are going to do for officeimporter application.
Related JIRA: http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XAOFFICE-25
I'm going to implement these changes by tomorrow. Please let me know if any of you are against it.
I thought we agree not to display the office importer menu entry if the office importer app wasn't installed? To be consistent we shouldn't have an office import action in the wysiwyg if the office importer app isn't installed too Maybe we should not display the entries if the office server is not started too. WDYT? Thanks -Vincent
Thanks.
- Asiri
Guillaume
Thanks
-Vincent
Thus I think the user doesn't have to know that the feature exists if the administrator has not activated it. The question then becomes: how does the administrator knows that the feature exists? I can see 2 options:
- Make the check be: "if the user isn't an admin & the server isn't running" so that admins know about the feature - Keep the check as it is and assume that admins that want to make the OOo server work will find out how since it's an often requested feature
I'd like to add a new behavior though (if it's not already done):
- if the office importer app is not installed (we can test for the main office importer page availability) then the menu entry shouldn't appear.
The OOo app comes bundled by default with XE. It's always there by default. This option doesn't solve the user expectation issue.
Guillaume
Hi, I thought we agree not to display the office importer menu entry if
the office importer app wasn't installed?
Yes, this is already implemented. I was talking about office importer wysiwyg plugin only.
To be consistent we shouldn't have an office import action in the wysiwyg if the office importer app isn't installed too
Hmmmm, this I'm not sure about. Copying / pasting from office documents can function even without having an openoffice server. This functionality doesn't depend on officeimporter application, though it depends on officeimporter module (xwiki-officeimporter). My suggestion was about file upload tab inside officeimporter wysiwyg dialog, which requires openoffice server to function.
Maybe we should not display the entries if the office server is not started too.
I think you are referring to officeimporter xwiki-ui behaviour, this we have voted and finalized. Thanks. - Asiri
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks.
- Asiri
Guillaume
Thanks
-Vincent
Thus I think the user doesn't have to know that the feature exists if the administrator has not activated it. The question then becomes: how does the administrator knows that the feature exists? I can see 2 options:
- Make the check be: "if the user isn't an admin & the server isn't running" so that admins know about the feature - Keep the check as it is and assume that admins that want to make the OOo server work will find out how since it's an often requested feature
I'd like to add a new behavior though (if it's not already done):
- if the office importer app is not installed (we can test for the main office importer page availability) then the menu entry shouldn't appear.
The OOo app comes bundled by default with XE. It's always there by default. This option doesn't solve the user expectation issue.
Guillaume
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On Sep 28, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
Hi,
I thought we agree not to display the office importer menu entry if
the office importer app wasn't installed?
Yes, this is already implemented. I was talking about office importer wysiwyg plugin only.
To be consistent we shouldn't have an office import action in the wysiwyg if the office importer app isn't installed too
Hmmmm, this I'm not sure about.
Copying / pasting from office documents can function even without having an openoffice server. This functionality doesn't depend on officeimporter application, though it depends on officeimporter module (xwiki-officeimporter).
My suggestion was about file upload tab inside officeimporter wysiwyg dialog, which requires openoffice server to function.
Yes, my question was: why have this tab enabled when the openoffice server is not started? Thanks -Vincent
Maybe we should not display the entries if the office server is not started too.
I think you are referring to officeimporter xwiki-ui behaviour, this we have voted and finalized.
Thanks.
- Asiri
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks.
- Asiri
Guillaume
Thanks
-Vincent
Thus I think the user doesn't have to know that the feature exists if the administrator has not activated it. The question then becomes: how does the administrator knows that the feature exists? I can see 2 options:
- Make the check be: "if the user isn't an admin & the server isn't running" so that admins know about the feature - Keep the check as it is and assume that admins that want to make the OOo server work will find out how since it's an often requested feature
I'd like to add a new behavior though (if it's not already done): > - if the office importer app is not installed (we can test for > the > main office importer page availability) then the menu entry > shouldn't > appear. >
The OOo app comes bundled by default with XE. It's always there by default. This option doesn't solve the user expectation issue.
Guillaume
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_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi,
My suggestion was about file upload tab inside officeimporter wysiwyg
dialog, which requires openoffice server to function.
Yes, my question was: why have this tab enabled when the openoffice server is not started?
Yes, we can either: 1. Completely hide the file upload tab if the openoffice server is not present. 2. Display a "teaser" message in the file upload tab saying "This functionality requires ....". I thought (2) was more consistent with what we are going to do for officeimporter application UI (display a message saying openoffice server is not started etc.) Thanks. - Asiri
Thanks -Vincent
Maybe we should not display the entries if the office server is not started too.
I think you are referring to officeimporter xwiki-ui behaviour, this we have voted and finalized.
Thanks.
- Asiri
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks.
- Asiri
Guillaume
Thanks
-Vincent
> Thus I think the user doesn't have to know that the feature > exists > if the > administrator has not activated it. The question then becomes: > how > does the > administrator knows that the feature exists? I can see 2 options: > > - Make the check be: "if the user isn't an admin & the server > isn't > running" so that admins know about the feature > - Keep the check as it is and assume that admins that want to > make > the > OOo server work will find out how since it's an often requested > feature > > I'd like to add a new behavior though (if it's not already done): >> - if the office importer app is not installed (we can test for >> the >> main office importer page availability) then the menu entry >> shouldn't >> appear. >> > > The OOo app comes bundled by default with XE. It's always there > by > default. > This option doesn't solve the user expectation issue. > > Guillaume
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_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Sep 28, 2009, at 6:15 PM, Asiri Rathnayake wrote:
Hi,
My suggestion was about file upload tab inside officeimporter wysiwyg
dialog, which requires openoffice server to function.
Yes, my question was: why have this tab enabled when the openoffice server is not started?
Yes, we can either:
1. Completely hide the file upload tab if the openoffice server is not present.
2. Display a "teaser" message in the file upload tab saying "This functionality requires ....".
I thought (2) was more consistent with what we are going to do for officeimporter application UI (display a message saying openoffice server is not started etc.)
Well we're not doing this right now for the office importer UI.... I reported it in jira AFAIR. Right now the top level menu entry is always present and if you click on it you have the form available to upload a file even if the server is not ready. -Vincent
Thanks.
- Asiri
Thanks -Vincent
Maybe we should not display the entries if the office server is not started too.
I think you are referring to officeimporter xwiki-ui behaviour, this we have voted and finalized.
Thanks.
- Asiri
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks.
- Asiri
Guillaume
Thanks > -Vincent > >> Thus I think the user doesn't have to know that the feature >> exists >> if the >> administrator has not activated it. The question then becomes: >> how >> does the >> administrator knows that the feature exists? I can see 2 >> options: >> >> - Make the check be: "if the user isn't an admin & the server >> isn't >> running" so that admins know about the feature >> - Keep the check as it is and assume that admins that want to >> make >> the >> OOo server work will find out how since it's an often requested >> feature >> >> I'd like to add a new behavior though (if it's not already >> done): >>> - if the office importer app is not installed (we can test for >>> the >>> main office importer page availability) then the menu entry >>> shouldn't >>> appear. >>> >> >> The OOo app comes bundled by default with XE. It's always there >> by >> default. >> This option doesn't solve the user expectation issue. >> >> Guillaume
Hi, Well we're not doing this right now for the office importer UI.... I
reported it in jira AFAIR. Right now the top level menu entry is always present and if you click on it you have the form available to upload a file even if the server is not ready.
Yes, I'm going to fix http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XAOFFICE-25 by tomorrow and then, 1. If the officeimporter application is installed "create"->"page from office document will be present". will be present, otherwise it will not be displayed. 2. When the user navigates to officeimporter UI, if the openoffice server is _not_ started: i) If the user is an admin, a message will explain the admin the situation and point him where he can start the server. ii) If the user is an ordinary user, a message will explain him that he should bug the admin about this missing (great) functionality. We had agreed on this functionality eventhough I was not able to implement it. Thanks. - Asiri
-Vincent
Thanks.
- Asiri
Thanks -Vincent
Maybe we should not display the entries if the office server is not started too.
I think you are referring to officeimporter xwiki-ui behaviour, this we have voted and finalized.
Thanks.
- Asiri
WDYT?
Thanks -Vincent
Thanks.
- Asiri
> > Guillaume > > Thanks >> -Vincent >> >>> Thus I think the user doesn't have to know that the feature >>> exists >>> if the >>> administrator has not activated it. The question then becomes: >>> how >>> does the >>> administrator knows that the feature exists? I can see 2 >>> options: >>> >>> - Make the check be: "if the user isn't an admin & the server >>> isn't >>> running" so that admins know about the feature >>> - Keep the check as it is and assume that admins that want to >>> make >>> the >>> OOo server work will find out how since it's an often requested >>> feature >>> >>> I'd like to add a new behavior though (if it's not already >>> done): >>>> - if the office importer app is not installed (we can test for >>>> the >>>> main office importer page availability) then the menu entry >>>> shouldn't >>>> appear. >>>> >>> >>> The OOo app comes bundled by default with XE. It's always there >>> by >>> default. >>> This option doesn't solve the user expectation issue. >>> >>> Guillaume
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Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi Devs, right now an user can go to the Office Importer page and try uploading a file even when the backend OOo server isn't running. This leads to usability issues. Thus I'd like to send a vote on the following 2 items:
- On the Office Importer page, add the following message: -
"You cannot import an Office document since the conversion server has not been started. Please ask an administrator to get it started for you."
-
If the current user is an admin, the message should read: "You cannot import an Office document since the OpenOffice server has not been started yet. You can start the OpenOffice server and manage it from this page (link to the OOo server administration page)."
"this" is not a good term. If you don't notice the link, then it reads as "you can manage it from this page you are looking at", which is wrong. "...manage it from the [OOo server administration section]."
-
In the action bar: add a check to see whether the OOo server is running and don't display the link if the OOo server is not.
+1 -- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
participants (5)
-
Asiri Rathnayake -
Guillaume Lerouge -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
Thomas Mortagne -
Vincent Massol