[xwiki-devs] [Discussion] New location of the "Add" menu in the new Flamingo skin
Hi devs, I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but in my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and questions like this [1] start to be asked. The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a various number of reasons: - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the page content) - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location looks completely randomly selected: -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains are trained to follow) -- it's not exactly at the top either -- it's not at the right -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important aspect of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s hard to miss. Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem here with this as well? Thanks, Eduard ---------- [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm
I have pretty much the same comments. The former location of that button made much more sense to me but given my usual participation to big Flaming design discussions I can't really complain too much ;) On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi devs,
I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but in my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and questions like this [1] start to be asked.
The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a various number of reasons: - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the page content) - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location looks completely randomly selected: -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains are trained to follow) -- it's not exactly at the top either -- it's not at the right -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind)
I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important aspect of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s hard to miss.
Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem here with this as well?
Thanks, Eduard
---------- [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne
Hi, please see my comments inline. On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Thomas Mortagne <thomas.mortagne@xwiki.com
wrote:
I have pretty much the same comments. The former location of that button made much more sense to me but given my usual participation to big Flaming design discussions I can't really complain too much ;)
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi devs,
I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but in my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and questions like this [1] start to be asked.
The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a various number of reasons: - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the page content)
I'm not sure that's a problem. The default behavior of the "create page" button is to create a page that is a child of the current page. Therefore, it can be considered a "current page-related" action.
- It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button
Indeed, this would need to be improved.
- from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location looks completely randomly selected: -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains are trained to follow) -- it's not exactly at the top either -- it's not at the right
-- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen
- etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind)
I don't have a strong feeling about this. The only comparison I can think of right off the bat is Confluence, which has the same button in a similar location. It doesn't seem to be causing issues to their users. I would see sense in adding "comment" as an option next to "page" and "page from office".
-- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to
WIKI/SPACE/PAGE)
As stated previously, I think having the same "Create" button for 3 actions that are fundamentally different is the larger issue here. I suggested a solution in the aforementioned email thread (separating the "create space" and "create wiki" buttons). Thanks, Guillaume
I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important aspect
of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s hard to miss.
Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem here with this as well?
Thanks, Eduard
---------- [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Thomas Mortagne _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi Eddy, 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com>:
Hi devs,
I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but in my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and questions like this [1] start to be asked.
The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a various number of reasons: - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the page content) - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location looks completely randomly selected: -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains are trained to follow) -- it's not exactly at the top either -- it's not at the right -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind)
Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit button, even if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the most basic and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: EDIT, ADD. To me, it makes sense.
I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important aspect of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s hard to miss.
Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem here with this as well?
Thanks, Eduard
---------- [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
Hi again, On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Eddy,
2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com>:
Hi devs,
I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but in my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and questions like this [1] start to be asked.
The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a various number of reasons: - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the page content) - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button
More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We would need a generic "Create" button to be available when we instantiate a livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the user directory, for all the AWM homepages... Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the same type than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this in an ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. It's also related to the automatic page name generation module (that we don't have in the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it <http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+Number+Module> ). Guillaume
- from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location looks completely randomly selected: -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains are trained to follow) -- it's not exactly at the top either -- it's not at the right -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind)
Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit button, even if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the most basic and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: EDIT, ADD.
To me, it makes sense.
I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important
aspect
of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s hard to miss.
Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem here with this as well?
Thanks, Eduard
---------- [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi again,
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Eddy,
2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com>:
Hi devs,
I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but in my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and questions like this [1] start to be asked.
The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a various number of reasons: - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the page content) - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button
More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We would need a generic "Create" button to be available when we instantiate a livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the user directory, for all the AWM homepages...
I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :) http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio... . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for custom buttons) before the live table don't you think?
Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the same type than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this in an ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. It's also related to the automatic page name generation module (that we don't have in the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it <http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+Number+Module> ).
Guillaume
- from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location looks completely randomly selected: -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains are trained to follow) -- it's not exactly at the top either -- it's not at the right -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind)
Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit button, even if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the most basic and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: EDIT, ADD.
To me, it makes sense.
I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important
aspect
of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s hard to miss.
Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem here with this as well?
Thanks, Eduard
---------- [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi Marius, On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi again,
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Eddy,
2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com>:
Hi devs,
I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but in my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and questions like this [1] start to be asked.
The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a various number of reasons: - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the page content) - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button
More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We would need a generic "Create" button to be available when we instantiate a livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the user directory, for all the AWM homepages...
I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :)
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio... . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for custom buttons) before the live table don't you think?
Yes and yes :-) Guillaume
Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the same type than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this in an ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. It's also related to the automatic page name generation module (that we don't have in the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it < http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
).
Guillaume
- from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location looks completely randomly selected: -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains are trained to follow) -- it's not exactly at the top either -- it's not at the right -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind)
Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit button, even if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the most basic and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: EDIT, ADD.
To me, it makes sense.
I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important
aspect
of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s hard to miss.
Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem here with this as well?
Thanks, Eduard
---------- [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Marius,
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi again,
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Eddy,
2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com>:
Hi devs,
I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but in my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and questions like this [1] start to be asked.
The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a various number of reasons: - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the page content) - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button
More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We would need a generic "Create" button to be available when we instantiate a livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the user directory, for all the AWM homepages...
I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :)
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
. Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for custom buttons) before the live table don't you think?
IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' column in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' Thanks, Caty
Yes and yes :-)
Guillaume
Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the same type than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this in an ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. It's also related to the automatic page name generation module (that we don't have in the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it <
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
).
Guillaume
- from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location
looks
completely randomly selected: -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains are trained to follow) -- it's not exactly at the top either -- it's not at the right -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind)
Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit button, even if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the most basic and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: EDIT, ADD.
To me, it makes sense.
I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important
aspect
of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s hard to miss.
Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem here with this as well?
Thanks, Eduard
---------- [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi, On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Marius,
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi again,
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Eddy,
2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com>:
Hi devs,
I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but in my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and questions like this [1] start to be asked.
The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a various number of reasons: - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the page content) - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button
More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We would need a generic "Create" button to be available when we instantiate a livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the user directory, for all the AWM homepages...
I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :)
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
. Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for custom buttons) before the live table don't you think?
IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' column in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create'
I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons why: 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the "actions" column is for actions that are related to individual entries that already exist 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages such as "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) Best, Guillaume Thanks,
Caty
Yes and yes :-)
Guillaume
Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the same type than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this in an ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. It's also related to the automatic page name generation module (that we don't have in the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it <
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
).
Guillaume
- from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location
looks
completely randomly selected: -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains are trained to follow) -- it's not exactly at the top either -- it's not at the right -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind)
Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit button, even if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the most basic and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: EDIT, ADD.
To me, it makes sense.
I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an
important aspect
of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s hard to miss.
Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem here with this as well?
Thanks, Eduard
---------- [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Lerouge guillaumelerouge.com <http://www.guillaumelerouge.com/> 06 10 79 76 70
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <me@guillaumelerouge.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Marius,
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi again,
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Eddy,
2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com>:
> Hi devs, > > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but in > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a > various number of reasons: > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. > related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the page > content) > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button
More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We would need a generic "Create" button to be available when we instantiate a livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the user directory, for all the AWM homepages...
I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :)
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
. Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for custom buttons) before the live table don't you think?
IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' column in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create'
I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons why:
IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the Actions column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row). Thanks, Caty
1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the "actions" column is for actions that are related to individual entries that already exist 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages such as "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager)
Best,
Guillaume
Thanks,
Caty
Yes and yes :-)
Guillaume
Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the same type than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this in an ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. It's also related to the automatic page name generation module (that we don't have in the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it <
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
).
Guillaume
> - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location
looks
> completely randomly selected: > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains are > trained to follow) > -- it's not exactly at the top either > -- it's not at the right > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) >
Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit button, even if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the most basic and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: EDIT, ADD.
To me, it makes sense.
> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important aspect > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s hard > to miss. > > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem here > with this as well? > > Thanks, > Eduard > > ---------- > [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs@xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Lerouge guillaumelerouge.com <http://www.guillaumelerouge.com/> 06 10 79 76 70 _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi, On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < me@guillaumelerouge.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Marius,
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi again,
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
> Hi Eddy, > > 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com : > > > Hi devs, > > > > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but > in > > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and > > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a > > various number of reasons: > > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. > > related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the > page > > content) > > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button >
More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We would need a generic "Create" button to be available when we instantiate a livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the user directory, for all the AWM homepages...
I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :)
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
. Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for custom buttons) before the live table don't you think?
IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' column in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create'
I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons why:
IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the Actions column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row).
Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used in a generic fashion by all livetables :-) Guillaume
Thanks, Caty
1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the "actions" column is for actions that are related to individual entries that already exist 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages such
as
"delete selected entries" (as in the file manager)
Best,
Guillaume
Thanks,
Caty
Yes and yes :-)
Guillaume
Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the same type than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this in an ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. It's also related to the automatic page name generation module (that we don't have in the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it <
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
).
Guillaume
> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new
location looks
> > completely randomly selected: > > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains > are > > trained to follow) > > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > -- it's not at the right > > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to > > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > > > > Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit button, even > if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the most basic > and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: EDIT, ADD. > > To me, it makes sense. > > > > > > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important > aspect > > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s hard > > to miss. > > > > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem here > > with this as well? > > > > Thanks, > > Eduard > > > > ---------- > > [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > devs@xwiki.org > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > -- > Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > Committer on the XWiki.org project > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs@xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Lerouge guillaumelerouge.com <http://www.guillaumelerouge.com/> 06 10 79 76 70 _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Venez nous rencontrer lors du *petit-déjeuner XWiki le mardi 7 octobre 2014 !* <http://info.xwiki.com/petit-dejeuner-XWiki-octobre-2014.html> -- <http://www.xwiki.com/>*Guillaume Lerouge* *Director of Sales & Marketing* Mail: guillaume@xwiki.com Mobile: *+33 6 10 79 76 70*Tel: *+33 1 45 42 40 90*
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < me@guillaumelerouge.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Marius,
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote: > Hi again, > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > >> Hi Eddy, >> >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < enygma2002@gmail.com : >> >> > Hi devs, >> > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but >> in >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. >> > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a >> > various number of reasons: >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. >> > related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the >> page >> > content) >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button >> >
> More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We would > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we instantiate a > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the user > directory, for all the AWM homepages...
I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :)
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
. Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for custom buttons) before the live table don't you think?
IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' column in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create'
I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons why:
IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the Actions column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row).
Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used in a generic fashion by all livetables :-)
Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single element action compared to 'delete'. A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you provide some kind of renaming template like '<prefix>_<number>'. In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go. Thanks, Eduard
Guillaume
Thanks, Caty
1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the
"actions"
column is for actions that are related to individual entries that already exist 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages such as "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager)
Best,
Guillaume
Thanks,
Caty
Yes and yes :-)
Guillaume
> Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the same type > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this in an > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. It's also > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we don't have in > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > <
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > ). > > Guillaume > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location looks >> > completely randomly selected: >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains >> are >> > trained to follow) >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either >> > -- it's not at the right >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) >> > >> >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit button, even >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the most basic >> and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: EDIT, ADD. >> >> To me, it makes sense. >> >> >> > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important >> aspect >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s hard >> > to miss. >> > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem here >> > with this as well? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Eduard >> > >> > ---------- >> > [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm >> > _______________________________________________ >> > devs mailing list >> > devs@xwiki.org >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) >> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS >> Committer on the XWiki.org project >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> devs@xwiki.org >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs@xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Lerouge guillaumelerouge.com <http://www.guillaumelerouge.com/> 06 10 79 76 70 _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Venez nous rencontrer lors du *petit-déjeuner XWiki le mardi 7 octobre 2014 !* <http://info.xwiki.com/petit-dejeuner-XWiki-octobre-2014.html> -- <http://www.xwiki.com/>*Guillaume Lerouge* *Director of Sales & Marketing* Mail: guillaume@xwiki.com Mobile: *+33 6 10 79 76 70*Tel: *+33 1 45 42 40 90* _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi, after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the "Add" button in its place. Crude image explanation here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons separated from one another. WDYT? Guillaume ᐧ On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < me@guillaumelerouge.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Marius,
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < guillaume@xwiki.com> > wrote: > > Hi again, > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi Eddy, > >> > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < enygma2002@gmail.com : > >> > >> > Hi devs, > >> > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, > but > >> in > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > >> > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a > >> > various number of reasons: > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries > (i.e. > >> > related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the > >> page > >> > content) > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > >> > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We would > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we instantiate a > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the user > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :) > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for custom > buttons) before the live table don't you think? >
IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' column in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create'
I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons why:
IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the Actions column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row).
Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used in a generic fashion by all livetables :-)
Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single element action compared to 'delete'.
A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you provide some kind of renaming template like '<prefix>_<number>'.
In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go.
Thanks, Eduard
Guillaume
Thanks, Caty
1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the
"actions"
column is for actions that are related to individual entries that already exist 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages such as "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager)
Best,
Guillaume
Thanks,
Caty
Yes and yes :-)
Guillaume
> > Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the same > type > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do
this
in
an
> > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. It's > also > > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we don't have > in > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > < >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > ). > > > > Guillaume > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location looks > >> > completely randomly selected: > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains > >> are > >> > trained to follow) > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > >> > -- it's not at the right > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > >> > > >> > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit button, > even > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the most > basic > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: EDIT, ADD. > >> > >> To me, it makes sense. > >> > >> > >> > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important > >> aspect > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s > hard > >> > to miss. > >> > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem > here > >> > with this as well? > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > Eduard > >> > > >> > ---------- > >> > [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > devs mailing list > >> > devs@xwiki.org > >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) > >> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > >> Committer on the XWiki.org project > >> _______________________________________________ > >> devs mailing list > >> devs@xwiki.org > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > devs@xwiki.org > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs@xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Lerouge guillaumelerouge.com <http://www.guillaumelerouge.com/> 06 10 79 76 70 _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Venez nous rencontrer lors du *petit-déjeuner XWiki le mardi 7 octobre 2014 !* <http://info.xwiki.com/petit-dejeuner-XWiki-octobre-2014.html> -- <http://www.xwiki.com/>*Guillaume Lerouge* *Director of Sales & Marketing* Mail: guillaume@xwiki.com Mobile: *+33 6 10 79 76 70*Tel: *+33 1 45 42 40 90* _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com(mailto:guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi,
after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the "Add" button in its place.
Crude image explanation here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png
This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons separated from one another.
WDYT?
Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me). FYI here’s what they have for: - confluence: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/... - jira: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/... Thanks -Vincent
Guillaume ᐧ
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < me@guillaumelerouge.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < guillaume@xwiki.com> wrote:
> Hi Marius, > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < guillaume@xwiki.com> > > wrote: > > > Hi again, > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > >> > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < enygma2002@gmail.com : > > >> > > >> > Hi devs, > > >> > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, > > but > > >> in > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > >> > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for > a > > >> > various number of reasons: > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries > > (i.e. > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in > the > > >> page > > >> > content) > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > >> > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We would > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we instantiate a > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the user > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :) > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for custom > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' column in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create'
I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons why:
IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the Actions column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row).
Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used in a generic fashion by all livetables :-)
Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single element action compared to 'delete'.
A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you provide some kind of renaming template like '_'.
In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go.
Thanks, Eduard
Guillaume
Thanks, Caty
1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the
"actions"
column is for actions that are related to individual entries that already exist 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages such as "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager)
Best,
Guillaume
Thanks,
Caty
> Yes and yes :-) > > Guillaume > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the same > > type > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do
this
in
an
> > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. It's > > also > > > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we don't > have > > in > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > < > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > ). > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location > looks > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific > brains > > >> are > > >> > trained to follow) > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > > >> > > > >> > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit button, > > even > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the most > > basic > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: EDIT, > ADD. > > >> > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important > > >> aspect > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s > > hard > > >> > to miss. > > >> > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem > > here > > >> > with this as well? > > >> > > > >> > Thanks, > > >> > Eduard
So basically, you want: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg 2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net <vincent@massol.net>:
On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com(mailto: guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi,
after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the "Add" button in its place.
Crude image explanation here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png
This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons separated from one another.
WDYT?
Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me).
FYI here’s what they have for: - confluence: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/... - jira: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
Thanks -Vincent
Guillaume ᐧ
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < me@guillaumelerouge.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < guillaume@xwiki.com> > wrote: > > > Hi Marius, > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > wrote: > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > >> > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < enygma2002@gmail.com : > > > >> > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > >> > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this > topic, > > > but > > > >> in > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused > and > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > >> > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO > for > > a > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related > entries > > > (i.e. > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in > > the > > > >> page > > > >> > content) > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We > would > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we instantiate a > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the user > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :) > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for custom > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' column > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' >
I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons why:
IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the Actions column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row).
Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used in a generic fashion by all livetables :-)
Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single element action compared to 'delete'.
A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you provide some kind of renaming template like '_'.
In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go.
Thanks, Eduard
Guillaume
Thanks, Caty
1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the
"actions"
column is for actions that are related to individual entries that already exist 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on
pages
such
as
"delete selected entries" (as in the file manager)
Best,
Guillaume
Thanks, > Caty > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the same > > > type > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this in an > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. It's > > > also > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we don't > > have > > > in > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > > < > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location > > looks > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific > > brains > > > >> are > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit button, > > > even > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the most > > > basic > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: EDIT, > > ADD. > > > >> > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an > important > > > >> aspect > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), > it`s > > > hard > > > >> > to miss. > > > >> > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a > problem > > > here > > > >> > with this as well? > > > >> > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > >> > Eduard
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
Even better: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg 2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>:
So basically, you want: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net <vincent@massol.net>:
On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com(mailto: guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi,
after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the "Add" button in its place.
Crude image explanation here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png
This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons separated from one another.
WDYT?
Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me).
FYI here’s what they have for: - confluence: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/... - jira: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
Thanks -Vincent
Guillaume ᐧ
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < me@guillaumelerouge.com> wrote:
> Hi, > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < guillaume@xwiki.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" > Delhumeau < > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > >> > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < enygma2002@gmail.com >: > > > > >> > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this > > topic, > > > > but > > > > >> in > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused > > and > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO > > for > > > a > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related > > entries > > > > (i.e. > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. > in > > > the > > > > >> page > > > > >> > content) > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We > > would > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we instantiate > a > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the > user > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for > custom > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' > column > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons why: >
IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the Actions column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row).
Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used in a generic fashion by all livetables :-)
Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single element action compared to 'delete'.
A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you provide some kind of renaming template like '_'.
In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go.
Thanks, Eduard
Guillaume
Thanks, Caty
> > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the "actions" > column is for actions that are related to individual entries
that
already
> exist > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages such as > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > Best, > > Guillaume > > Thanks, > > Caty > > > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the > same > > > > type > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this in > an > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. > It's > > > > also > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we don't > > > have > > > > in > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location > > > looks > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific > > > brains > > > > >> are > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next > to > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit > button, > > > > even > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the > most > > > > basic > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: > EDIT, > > > ADD. > > > > >> > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an > > important > > > > >> aspect > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), > > it`s > > > > hard > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a > > problem > > > > here > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > >> > Eduard
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
2014-10-01 11:04 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>:
Even better: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
It's getting closer and closer from its original location ! :D
2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>:
So basically, you want: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net <vincent@massol.net>:
On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com
(mailto:
guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi,
after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the "Add" button in its place.
Crude image explanation here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png
This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons separated from one another.
WDYT?
Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me).
FYI here’s what they have for: - confluence:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
- jira:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
Thanks -Vincent
Guillaume ᐧ
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" > > Delhumeau < > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < enygma2002@gmail.com > >: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion
started
on
this
> > > topic, > > > > > but > > > > > >> in > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being > confused > > > and > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic > IMO > > > for > > > > a > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related > > > entries > > > > > (i.e. > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current location > (i.e. > > in > > > > the > > > > > >> page > > > > > >> > content) > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We > > > would > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we > instantiate > > a > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the > > user > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for > > custom > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' > > column > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > > > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons why: > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the Actions > column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row). >
Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used in a generic fashion by all livetables :-)
Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single element action compared to 'delete'.
A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you provide some kind of renaming template like '_'.
In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go.
Thanks, Eduard
Guillaume
> Thanks, > Caty > > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the "actions" > > column is for actions that are related to individual entries
that
already > > exist > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages such > as > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > > > Best, > > > > Guillaume > > > > Thanks, > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the > > same > > > > > type > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this > in > > an > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. > > It's > > > > > also > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we > don't > > > > have > > > > > in > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new > location > > > > looks > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language > specific > > > > brains > > > > > >> are > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next > > to > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit > > button, > > > > > even > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the > > most > > > > > basic > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: > > EDIT, > > > > ADD. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an > > > important > > > > > >> aspect > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like > :)), > > > it`s > > > > > hard > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a > > > problem > > > > > here > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > > >> > Eduard
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Even better: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :) I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create". Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called "Add" to add to the page: * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button normally) * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom), * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all existing objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to manage addition of new ones, AWSeconds) This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the bottom is removed. It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow application to hook both of them depending on their needs. Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, annotation should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them (including the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a seperate checkbox. WDYT ?
2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>:
So basically, you want: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net <vincent@massol.net>:
On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com
(mailto:
guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi,
after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the "Add" button in its place.
Crude image explanation here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png
This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons separated from one another.
WDYT?
Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me).
FYI here’s what they have for: - confluence:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
- jira:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
Thanks -Vincent
Guillaume ᐧ
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" > > Delhumeau < > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < enygma2002@gmail.com > >: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion
started
on
this
> > > topic, > > > > > but > > > > > >> in > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being > confused > > > and > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic > IMO > > > for > > > > a > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related > > > entries > > > > > (i.e. > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current location > (i.e. > > in > > > > the > > > > > >> page > > > > > >> > content) > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We > > > would > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we > instantiate > > a > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the > > user > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for > > custom > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' > > column > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > > > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons why: > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the Actions > column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row). >
Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used in a generic fashion by all livetables :-)
Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single element action compared to 'delete'.
A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you provide some kind of renaming template like '_'.
In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go.
Thanks, Eduard
Guillaume
> Thanks, > Caty > > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the "actions" > > column is for actions that are related to individual entries
that
already > > exist > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages such > as > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > > > Best, > > > > Guillaume > > > > Thanks, > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the > > same > > > > > type > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this > in > > an > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. > > It's > > > > > also > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we > don't > > > > have > > > > > in > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new > location > > > > looks > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language > specific > > > > brains > > > > > >> are > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next > > to > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit > > button, > > > > > even > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the > > most > > > > > basic > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: > > EDIT, > > > > ADD. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an > > > important > > > > > >> aspect > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like > :)), > > > it`s > > > > > hard > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a > > > problem > > > > > here > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > > >> > Eduard
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO
On 1 Oct 2014 at 12:08:23, Denis Gervalle (dgl@softec.lu(mailto:dgl@softec.lu)) wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Even better: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :)
I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create”.
Yes I completely agree about that.
Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called "Add" to add to the page: * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button normally) * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom), * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all existing objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to manage addition of new ones, AWSeconds) This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the bottom is removed. It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow application to hook both of them depending on their needs.
Why not, but I’d like to separate the 2 issues so that we can move on quickly ;) Thanks -Vincent
Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, annotation should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them (including the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a seperate checkbox.
WDYT ?
2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>:
So basically, you want: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net :
On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com
(mailto:
guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi,
after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the "Add" button in its place.
Crude image explanation here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png
This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons separated from one another.
WDYT?
Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me).
FYI here’s what they have for: - confluence:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
- jira:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
Thanks -Vincent
Guillaume ᐧ
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
> Hi, > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" > > > Delhumeau < > > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > enygma2002@gmail.com > > >: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion
started
on
this > > > > topic, > > > > > > but > > > > > > >> in > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being > > confused > > > > and > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic > > IMO > > > > for > > > > > a > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related > > > > entries > > > > > > (i.e. > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current location > > (i.e. > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > >> page > > > > > > >> > content) > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. > We > > > > would > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we > > instantiate > > > a > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for > the > > > user > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for > > > custom > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' > > > column > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons > why: > > > > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the > Actions > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row). > > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used in > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) >
Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single element action compared to 'delete'.
A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you provide some kind of renaming template like '_'.
In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go.
Thanks, Eduard
> > Guillaume > > > > Thanks, > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the > "actions" > > > column is for actions that are related to individual entries that > already > > > exist > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages > such > > as > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new item of > the > > > same > > > > > > type > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this > > in > > > an > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic > solution. > > > It's > > > > > > also > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we > > don't > > > > > have > > > > > > in > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new > > location > > > > > looks > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language > > specific > > > > > brains > > > > > > >> are > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. > next > > > to > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit > > > button, > > > > > > even > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the > > > most > > > > > > basic > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: > > > EDIT, > > > > > ADD. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an > > > > important > > > > > > >> aspect > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like > > :)), > > > > it`s > > > > > > hard > > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a > > > > problem > > > > > > here > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > > > >> > Eduard
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 12:13 PM, vincent@massol.net <vincent@massol.net> wrote:
On 1 Oct 2014 at 12:08:23, Denis Gervalle (dgl@softec.lu(mailto: dgl@softec.lu)) wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Even better: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :)
I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create”.
Yes I completely agree about that.
Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called "Add" to add to the page: * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button normally) * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom), * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all existing objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to manage addition of new ones, AWSeconds)
This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the bottom is removed. It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow application to hook both of them depending on their needs.
Why not, but I’d like to separate the 2 issues so that we can move on quickly ;)
I am not against ! Just need to name the first "Create" to be able to think about the second.
Thanks -Vincent
Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, annotation should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them (including the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a seperate checkbox.
WDYT ?
2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>:
So basically, you want:
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net :
On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com
(mailto:
guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi,
after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the "Add" button in its place.
Crude image explanation here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png
This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons separated from one another.
WDYT?
Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me).
FYI here’s what they have for: - confluence:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
- jira:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
Thanks -Vincent
Guillaume ᐧ
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru
(Valica) <
> > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" > > > > Delhumeau < > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > > enygma2002@gmail.com > > > >: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on > this > > > > > topic, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > >> in > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being > > > confused > > > > > and > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is > problematic > > > IMO > > > > > for > > > > > > a > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds > page-related > > > > > entries > > > > > > > (i.e. > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current location > > > (i.e. > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> page > > > > > > > >> > content) > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of > livetables. > > We > > > > > would > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we > > > instantiate > > > > a > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for > > the > > > > user > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager > then > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for > > > > custom > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the > 'Actions' > > > > column > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons > > why: > > > > > > > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the > > Actions > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row). > > > > > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used > in > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) > > > > Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single > element action compared to 'delete'. > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go. > > Thanks, > Eduard > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the > > "actions" > > > > column is for actions that are related to individual entries that > > already > > > > exist > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages > > such > > > as > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new item of > > the > > > > same > > > > > > > type > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do > this > > > in > > > > an > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic > > solution. > > > > It's > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we > > > don't > > > > > > have > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new > > > location > > > > > > looks > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language > > > specific > > > > > > brains > > > > > > > >> are > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. > > next > > > > to > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit > > > > button, > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups > the > > > > most > > > > > > > basic > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to > contribute: > > > > EDIT, > > > > > > ADD. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an > > > > > important > > > > > > > >> aspect > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like > > > :)), > > > > > it`s > > > > > > > hard > > > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see > a > > > > > problem > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > > > > >> > Eduard
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Even better: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :)
I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create".
Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called "Add" to add to the page: * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button normally) * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom), * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all existing objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to manage addition of new ones, AWSeconds)
This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the bottom is removed.
Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I misunderstood.
It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow application to hook both of them depending on their needs.
Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, annotation should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them (including the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a seperate checkbox.
WDYT ?
2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>:
So basically, you want: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net <vincent@massol.net>:
On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com
(mailto:
guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi,
after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the "Add" button in its place.
Crude image explanation here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png
This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons separated from one another.
WDYT?
Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me).
FYI here’s what they have for: - confluence:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
- jira:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
Thanks -Vincent
Guillaume ᐧ
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
> Hi, > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" > > > Delhumeau < > > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > enygma2002@gmail.com > > >: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion
started
on
this > > > > topic, > > > > > > but > > > > > > >> in > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being > > confused > > > > and > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic > > IMO > > > > for > > > > > a > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related > > > > entries > > > > > > (i.e. > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current location > > (i.e. > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > >> page > > > > > > >> > content) > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. > We > > > > would > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we > > instantiate > > > a > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for > the > > > user > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for > > > custom > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' > > > column > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons > why: > > > > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the > Actions > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row). > > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used in > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) >
Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single element action compared to 'delete'.
A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you provide some kind of renaming template like '_'.
In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go.
Thanks, Eduard
> > Guillaume > > > > Thanks, > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the > "actions" > > > column is for actions that are related to individual entries that > already > > > exist > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages > such > > as > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new item of > the > > > same > > > > > > type > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this > > in > > > an > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic > solution. > > > It's > > > > > > also > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we > > don't > > > > > have > > > > > > in > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new > > location > > > > > looks > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language > > specific > > > > > brains > > > > > > >> are > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. > next > > > to > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit > > > button, > > > > > > even > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the > > > most > > > > > > basic > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: > > > EDIT, > > > > > ADD. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an > > > > important > > > > > > >> aspect > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like > > :)), > > > > it`s > > > > > > hard > > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a > > > > problem > > > > > > here > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > > > >> > Eduard
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi, I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re more or less back where we started from, with the "improvement" that the "Add" button is now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :) Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the only downside is that awkward feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However, it's never a question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works best in practice and what makes sense. Regarding the addition of yet another "Add" button for page-related entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such a good idea. I never did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK, they are not recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) classes either, for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are not friendly with the browser's "Back" button. I think we already have enough shortcuts in the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit' dropdown. Thanks, Eduard On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Even better: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :)
I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create".
Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called "Add" to add to the page: * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button normally) * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom), * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all existing objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to manage addition of new ones, AWSeconds)
This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the bottom is removed.
Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I misunderstood.
It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow application to hook both of them depending on their needs.
Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, annotation should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them (including the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a seperate checkbox.
WDYT ?
2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>:
So basically, you want: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net <vincent@massol.net>:
On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com
(mailto:
guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi,
after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put
the
"Add"
button in its place.
Crude image explanation here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png
This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons separated from one another.
WDYT?
Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me).
FYI here’s what they have for: - confluence:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
- jira:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
Thanks -Vincent
Guillaume ᐧ
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<
> > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" > > > > Delhumeau < > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > > enygma2002@gmail.com > > > >: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on > this > > > > > topic, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > >> in > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being > > > confused > > > > > and > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is > problematic > > > IMO > > > > > for > > > > > > a > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds > page-related > > > > > entries > > > > > > > (i.e. > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current location > > > (i.e. > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> page > > > > > > > >> > content) > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of > livetables. > > We > > > > > would > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we > > > instantiate > > > > a > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for > > the > > > > user > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager > then > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for > > > > custom > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the > 'Actions' > > > > column > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons > > why: > > > > > > > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the > > Actions > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row). > > > > > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used > in > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) > > > > Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single > element action compared to 'delete'. > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go. > > Thanks, > Eduard > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the > > "actions" > > > > column is for actions that are related to individual entries that > > already > > > > exist > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages > > such > > > as > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new item of > > the > > > > same > > > > > > > type > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do > this > > > in > > > > an > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic > > solution. > > > > It's > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we > > > don't > > > > > > have > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new > > > location > > > > > > looks > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language > > > specific > > > > > > brains > > > > > > > >> are > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. > > next > > > > to > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit > > > > button, > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups > the > > > > most > > > > > > > basic > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to > contribute: > > > > EDIT, > > > > > > ADD. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an > > > > > important > > > > > > > >> aspect > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like > > > :)), > > > > > it`s > > > > > > > hard > > > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see > a > > > > > problem > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > > > > >> > Eduard
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re more or less back where we started from, with the "improvement" that the "Add" button is now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :)
Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the only downside is that awkward feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However, it's never a question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works best in practice and what makes sense.
Hi, Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the original Flamingo proposal "which we all agreed on". Apparently this is the reason some of the things changed: listening to different opinions. One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that when we proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these 'concerns' should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of discussions should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase. Also all the changes proposed in Flamingo, where discussed before. We used 'Add' naming because 'Create' was less used 'in the wild', was shorter, etc. We moved the Add (from the Colibri position) because some users find it difficult to locate, wanted to improve the actions grouping, etc. ---- I liked the Colibri's 'Add' position and I just want us to make this change because we think that is the best place for it, not because we are influenced and think another product might have the magic solution to our problems. If you consider that after a 'period of testing' that location is not the best place for the 'Add' button to be, than I agree we can 'revert' the change. IMO the menus are still not optimal, but I guess only testing could give us an impartial answer. I would have liked a bit more time to test this solution with 'normal' users, and I hope we don't do this change because regular/advanced users had a hard time to adapt to it. I will repeat myself, I think skins are allowed to have differences (but maybe testing different solutions would be more acceptable if we had more skins or changed them more often). Thanks, Caty
Regarding the addition of yet another "Add" button for page-related entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such a good idea. I never did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK, they are not recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) classes either, for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are not friendly with the browser's "Back" button. I think we already have enough shortcuts in the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit' dropdown.
Thanks, Eduard
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Even better: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :)
I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create".
Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called "Add" to add to the page: * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button normally) * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom), * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all existing objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to manage addition of new ones, AWSeconds)
This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the bottom is removed.
Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I misunderstood.
It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow application to hook both of them depending on their needs.
Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, annotation should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them (including the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a seperate checkbox.
WDYT ?
2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>:
So basically, you want:
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net <vincent@massol.net>:
On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com
(mailto:
guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote:
> Hi, > > after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that > would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea > would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the "Add" > button in its place. > > Crude image explanation here: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png > > This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is > contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, > since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much > in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More > actions" buttons separated from one another. > > WDYT?
Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me).
FYI here’s what they have for: - confluence:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
- jira:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
Thanks -Vincent
> Guillaume > ᐧ > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru
(Valica) <
> > > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" > > > > > Delhumeau < > > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > > > enygma2002@gmail.com > > > > >: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on > > this > > > > > > topic, > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > >> in > > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being > > > > confused > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is > > problematic > > > > IMO > > > > > > for > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds > > page-related > > > > > > entries > > > > > > > > (i.e. > > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current location > > > > (i.e. > > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > >> page > > > > > > > > >> > content) > > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of > > livetables. > > > We > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we > > > > instantiate > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for > > > the > > > > > user > > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager > > then > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for > > > > > custom > > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the > > 'Actions' > > > > > column > > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons > > > why: > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the > > > Actions > > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk > > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection > > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row). > > > > > > > > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column > > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also > > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used > > in > > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) > > > > > > > Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed > > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single > > element action compared to 'delete'. > > > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a > > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you > > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. > > > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column > > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column > > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go. > > > > Thanks, > > Eduard > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the > > > "actions" > > > > > column is for actions that are related to individual entries that > > > already > > > > > exist > > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator > > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages > > > such > > > > as > > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new item of > > > the > > > > > same > > > > > > > > type > > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do > > this > > > > in > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic > > > solution. > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we > > > > don't > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new > > > > location > > > > > > > looks > > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language > > > > specific > > > > > > > brains > > > > > > > > >> are > > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. > > > next > > > > > to > > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit > > > > > button, > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups > > the > > > > > most > > > > > > > > basic > > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to > > contribute: > > > > > EDIT, > > > > > > > ADD. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an > > > > > > important > > > > > > > > >> aspect > > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like > > > > :)), > > > > > > it`s > > > > > > > > hard > > > > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see > > a > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > > > > > >> > Eduard _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On 1 Oct 2014 at 14:12:09, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (valicac@gmail.com(mailto:valicac@gmail.com)) wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
Hi,
I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re more or less back where we started from, with the "improvement" that the "Add" button is now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :)
Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the only downside is that awkward feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However, it's never a question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works best in practice and what makes sense.
Hi,
Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the original Flamingo proposal "which we all agreed on". Apparently this is the reason some of the things changed: listening to different opinions.
One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that when we proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these 'concerns' should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of discussions should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase.
Also all the changes proposed in Flamingo, where discussed before. We used 'Add' naming because 'Create' was less used 'in the wild', was shorter, etc. We moved the Add (from the Colibri position) because some users find it difficult to locate, wanted to improve the actions grouping, etc.
----
I liked the Colibri's 'Add' position and I just want us to make this change because we think that is the best place for it, not because we are influenced and think another product might have the magic solution to our problems.
If you consider that after a 'period of testing' that location is not the best place for the 'Add' button to be, than I agree we can 'revert' the change. IMO the menus are still not optimal, but I guess only testing could give us an impartial answer. I would have liked a bit more time to test this solution with 'normal' users, and I hope we don't do this change because regular/advanced users had a hard time to adapt to it. I will repeat myself, I think skins are allowed to have differences (but maybe testing different solutions would be more acceptable if we had more skins or changed them more often).
I understand that you can be a bit upset and I’m sorry about that. However we need to face it: we only get real feedback when people start seeing it for real. This is also why we shouldn’t spend too much time on proposal/designs/architecture and instead more quickly implement ideas and get feedback. Regarding the “Add” vs “Create” naming, I forgot our discussion and I don’t remember the arguments. It’s less important than the location of the button and moving the search to the right for me. It seems we have a majority of agreements for the “Add/Create” button at the top (including yourself) instead of inside the page and I would be in favor of changing it quickly (6.2.2) mostly because: - this is where it was in the Colibri skin (in the top menu) and the majority of users have not upgraded to 6.x yet and asking them to adapt to the new location and to change it just after is sad if we can avoid it. - It’s better to not break people’s habits unless there’s a good reason to justify the change and here I don’t see a good reason (nor any logic) - incidentally it also solves the issue with the search bar being the most prominent item on the page Last I should say that I have voiced my concerns about the Add button and the Search bar several times in the past and I haven’t waited today. What makes it stronger today is that I’m hearing more people who also don’t like having the “Add” button contextually in the page. Thanks -Vincent
Thanks, Caty
Regarding the addition of yet another "Add" button for page-related entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such a good idea. I never did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK, they are not recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) classes either, for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are not friendly with the browser's "Back" button. I think we already have enough shortcuts in the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit' dropdown.
Thanks, Eduard
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Even better: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :)
I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create".
Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called "Add" to add to the page: * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button normally) * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom), * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all existing objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to manage addition of new ones, AWSeconds)
This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the bottom is removed.
Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I misunderstood.
It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow application to hook both of them depending on their needs.
Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, annotation should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them (including the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a seperate checkbox.
WDYT ?
2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>:
So basically, you want:
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net :
> > On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com
(mailto:
> guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that > > would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea > > would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the > "Add" > > button in its place. > > > > Crude image explanation here: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png > > > > This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that > is > > contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, > > since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too > much > > in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and > "More > > actions" buttons separated from one another. > > > > WDYT? > > Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create > button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me). > > FYI here’s what they have for: > - confluence: >
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
> - jira: >
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
> > Thanks > -Vincent > > > Guillaume > > ᐧ > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > > > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > > > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume > "Louis-Marie" > > > > > > Delhumeau < > > > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > > > > enygma2002@gmail.com > > > > > >: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started > on > > > this > > > > > > > topic, > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > >> in > > > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start > being > > > > > confused > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is > > > problematic > > > > > IMO > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds > > > page-related > > > > > > > entries > > > > > > > > > (i.e. > > > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current > location > > > > > (i.e. > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> page > > > > > > > > > >> > content) > > > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of > > > livetables. > > > > We > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we > > > > > instantiate > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index > page, for > > > > the > > > > > > user > > > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File > Manager > > > then > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with > support for > > > > > > custom > > > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the > > > 'Actions' > > > > > > column > > > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 > reasons > > > > why: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that > the > > > > Actions > > > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had > bulk > > > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity > selection > > > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" > column > > > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and > also > > > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be > used > > > in > > > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) > > > > > > > > > > Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be > performed > > > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single > > > element action compared to 'delete'. > > > > > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more > of a > > > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well > if you > > > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. > > > > > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions > column > > > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox > column > > > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Eduard > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the > > > > "actions" > > > > > > column is for actions that are related to individual entries > that > > > > already > > > > > > exist > > > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator > > > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on > pages > > > > such > > > > > as > > > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new > item of > > > > the > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > type > > > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we > do > > > this > > > > > in > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic > > > > solution. > > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module > (that we > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the > new > > > > > location > > > > > > > > looks > > > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right > language > > > > > specific > > > > > > > > brains > > > > > > > > > >> are > > > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates > (i.e. > > > > next > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my > mind) > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near > the Edit > > > > > > button, > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it > groups > > > the > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > basic > > > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to > > > contribute: > > > > > > EDIT, > > > > > > > > ADD. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's > quite an > > > > > > > important > > > > > > > > > >> aspect > > > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which > I like > > > > > :)), > > > > > > > it`s > > > > > > > > > hard > > > > > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do > others see > > > a > > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > >> > Eduard > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs@xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <valicac@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re more or less back where we started from, with the "improvement" that the "Add" button is now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :)
Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the only downside is that awkward feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However, it's never a question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works best in practice and what makes sense.
Hi,
Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the original Flamingo proposal "which we all agreed on". Apparently this is the reason some of the things changed: listening to different opinions.
One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that when we proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these 'concerns' should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of discussions should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase.
I completely agree with you on that point. And this is true for UI, as well as anything else on this project. We always need it realized to received criticisms. This probably a consequence of the fact that we are all very busy. That said, I do not remember seing a proposal that look like the current result. And your initial proposal does not exhibit the issue we are actually discussing, which have been mainly started because of the add wiki option.
Also all the changes proposed in Flamingo, where discussed before. We used 'Add' naming because 'Create' was less used 'in the wild', was shorter, etc. We moved the Add (from the Colibri position) because some users find it difficult to locate, wanted to improve the actions grouping, etc.
I agree, what I am proposing actually only came from the current discussion and the evolution of it. It is not always easy to imagine good UI without tasting it for real. I think we should not care too much, and we should look forward to finally getting the best UI ever, even if the process is not academic.
----
I liked the Colibri's 'Add' position and I just want us to make this change because we think that is the best place for it, not because we are influenced and think another product might have the magic solution to our problems.
If you consider that after a 'period of testing' that location is not the best place for the 'Add' button to be, than I agree we can 'revert' the change. IMO the menus are still not optimal, but I guess only testing could give us an impartial answer. I would have liked a bit more time to test this solution with 'normal' users, and I hope we don't do this change because regular/advanced users had a hard time to adapt to it. I will repeat myself, I think skins are allowed to have differences (but maybe testing different solutions would be more acceptable if we had more skins or changed them more often).
I do not think we are complaining because we are advance, only because it mixup "out of context" and "in context" actions. Which is for the end user, surely a source of confusion. Cathy, do not feel too upset of all these changes, you have made a great job preparing this new skin, it just need polishing as any of what we do. I know it is frustrating that preview are not look at carefully enough, but that's life :)
Thanks, Caty
Regarding the addition of yet another "Add" button for page-related entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such a good idea. I
never
did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK, they are not recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) classes either, for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are not friendly with the browser's "Back" button. I think we already have enough shortcuts in the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit' dropdown.
Thanks, Eduard
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Even better:
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :)
I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create".
Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called "Add" to add to the page: * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button normally) * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom), * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all existing objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to manage addition of new ones, AWSeconds)
This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the bottom is removed.
Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I misunderstood.
It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow application to hook both of them depending on their needs.
Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, annotation should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them (including the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a seperate checkbox.
WDYT ?
2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>:
So basically, you want:
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net <vincent@massol.net
:
> > On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (
guillaume@xwiki.com (mailto:
> guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that > > would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea > > would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the > "Add" > > button in its place. > > > > Crude image explanation here: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png > > > > This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that > is > > contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, > > since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too > much > > in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and > "More > > actions" buttons separated from one another. > > > > WDYT? > > Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create > button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me). > > FYI here’s what they have for: > - confluence: >
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
> - jira: >
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
> > Thanks > -Vincent > > > Guillaume > > ᐧ > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > > > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > > > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume > "Louis-Marie" > > > > > > Delhumeau < > > > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > > > > enygma2002@gmail.com > > > > > >: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started > on > > > this > > > > > > > topic, > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > >> in > > > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start > being > > > > > confused > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is > > > problematic > > > > > IMO > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds > > > page-related > > > > > > > entries > > > > > > > > > (i.e. > > > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current > location > > > > > (i.e. > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> page > > > > > > > > > >> > content) > > > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of > > > livetables. > > > > We > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we > > > > > instantiate > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index > page, for > > > > the > > > > > > user > > > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File > Manager > > > then > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with > support for > > > > > > custom > > > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the > > > 'Actions' > > > > > > column > > > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 > reasons > > > > why: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that > the > > > > Actions > > > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had > bulk > > > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity > selection > > > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" > column > > > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and > also > > > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be > used > > > in > > > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) > > > > > > > > > > Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be > performed > > > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single > > > element action compared to 'delete'. > > > > > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more > of a > > > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well > if you > > > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. > > > > > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions > column > > > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox > column > > > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Eduard > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the > > > > "actions" > > > > > > column is for actions that are related to individual entries > that > > > > already > > > > > > exist > > > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator > > > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on > pages > > > > such > > > > > as > > > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new > item of > > > > the > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > type > > > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we > do > > > this > > > > > in > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic > > > > solution. > > > > > > It's > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module > (that we > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the > new > > > > > location > > > > > > > > looks > > > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right > language > > > > > specific > > > > > > > > brains > > > > > > > > > >> are > > > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates > (i.e. > > > > next > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my > mind) > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near > the Edit > > > > > > button, > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it > groups > > > the > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > basic > > > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to > > > contribute: > > > > > > EDIT, > > > > > > > > ADD. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's > quite an > > > > > > > important > > > > > > > > > >> aspect > > > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which > I like > > > > > :)), > > > > > > > it`s > > > > > > > > > hard > > > > > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do > others see > > > a > > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > >> > Eduard > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs@xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re more or less back where we started from, with the "improvement" that the "Add" button is now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :)
Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the only downside is that awkward feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However, it's never a question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works best in practice and what makes sense.
Hi,
Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the original Flamingo proposal "which we all agreed on". Apparently this is the reason some of the things changed: listening to different opinions.
One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that when we proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these 'concerns' should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of discussions should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase.
I completely agree with you on that point. And this is true for UI, as well as anything else on this project. We always need it realized to received criticisms. This probably a consequence of the fact that we are all very busy. That said, I do not remember seing a proposal that look like the current result. And your initial proposal does not exhibit the issue we are actually discussing, which have been mainly started because of the add wiki option.
It was always in the initial proposal http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4x and more explicitly in the Menus section http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4xMenus
Also all the changes proposed in Flamingo, where discussed before. We used 'Add' naming because 'Create' was less used 'in the wild', was shorter, etc. We moved the Add (from the Colibri position) because some users find it difficult to locate, wanted to improve the actions grouping, etc.
I agree, what I am proposing actually only came from the current discussion and the evolution of it. It is not always easy to imagine good UI without tasting it for real. I think we should not care too much, and we should look forward to finally getting the best UI ever, even if the process is not academic.
----
I liked the Colibri's 'Add' position and I just want us to make this
change
because we think that is the best place for it, not because we are influenced and think another product might have the magic solution to our problems.
If you consider that after a 'period of testing' that location is not the best place for the 'Add' button to be, than I agree we can 'revert' the change. IMO the menus are still not optimal, but I guess only testing could give us an impartial answer. I would have liked a bit more time to test this solution with 'normal' users, and I hope we don't do this change because regular/advanced users had a hard time to adapt to it. I will repeat myself, I think skins are allowed to have differences (but maybe testing different solutions would be more acceptable if we had more skins or changed them more often).
I do not think we are complaining because we are advance, only because it mixup "out of context" and "in context" actions. Which is for the end user, surely a source of confusion.
Cathy, do not feel too upset of all these changes, you have made a great job preparing this new skin, it just need polishing as any of what we do. I know it is frustrating that preview are not look at carefully enough, but that's life :)
:) Thanks, Caty
Thanks, Caty
Regarding the addition of yet another "Add" button for page-related entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such a good idea. I
never
did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK, they are not recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) classes
either,
for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are not friendly with the browser's "Back" button. I think we already have enough shortcuts in the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit' dropdown.
Thanks, Eduard
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Even better:
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :)
I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create".
Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called "Add" to add to the page: * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button normally) * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom), * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all existing objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to manage addition of new ones, AWSeconds)
This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the bottom is removed.
Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I misunderstood.
It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow application to hook both of them depending on their needs.
Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, annotation should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them (including the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a seperate checkbox.
WDYT ?
2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>:
> So basically, you want: >
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
> > 2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net < vincent@massol.net : > > >> >> On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge ( guillaume@xwiki.com (mailto: >> guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that >> > would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea >> > would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the >> "Add" >> > button in its place. >> > >> > Crude image explanation here: >> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png >> > >> > This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that >> is >> > contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, >> > since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too >> much >> > in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and >> "More >> > actions" buttons separated from one another. >> > >> > WDYT? >> >> Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create >> button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me). >> >> FYI here’s what they have for: >> - confluence: >>
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
>> - jira: >>
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
>> >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> >> > Guillaume >> > ᐧ >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote: >> > >> > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > Hi, >> > > > >> > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >> > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < >> > > > > me@guillaumelerouge.com> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > Hi, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >> > > > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < >> > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> >> > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hi Marius, >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < >> > > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < >> > > > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> >> > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > Hi again, >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume >> "Louis-Marie" >> > > > > > Delhumeau < >> > > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < >> > > > enygma2002@gmail.com >> > > > > >: >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started >> on >> > > this >> > > > > > > topic, >> > > > > > > > > but >> > > > > > > > > >> in >> > > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start >> being >> > > > > confused >> > > > > > > and >> > > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is >> > > problematic >> > > > > IMO >> > > > > > > for >> > > > > > > > a >> > > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds >> > > page-related >> > > > > > > entries >> > > > > > > > > (i.e. >> > > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current >> location >> > > > > (i.e. >> > > > > > in >> > > > > > > > the >> > > > > > > > > >> page >> > > > > > > > > >> > content) >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of >> > > livetables. >> > > > We >> > > > > > > would >> > > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we >> > > > > instantiate >> > > > > > a >> > > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index >> page, for >> > > > the >> > > > > > user >> > > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File >> Manager >> > > then >> > > > :) >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >>
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
>> > > > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with >> support for >> > > > > > custom >> > > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the >> > > 'Actions' >> > > > > > column >> > > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 >> reasons >> > > > why: >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that >> the >> > > > Actions >> > > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had >> bulk >> > > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity >> selection >> > > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row). >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" >> column >> > > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and >> also >> > > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be >> used >> > > in >> > > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) >> > > > >> > > >> > > Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be >> performed >> > > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single >> > > element action compared to 'delete'. >> > > >> > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more >> of a >> > > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well >> if you >> > > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. >> > > >> > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions >> column >> > > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox >> column >> > > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go. >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > Eduard >> > > >> > > > >> > > > Guillaume >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Thanks, >> > > > > Caty >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the >> > > > "actions" >> > > > > > column is for actions that are related to individual entries >> that >> > > > already >> > > > > > exist >> > > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator >> > > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on >> pages >> > > > such >> > > > > as >> > > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Best, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Guillaume >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks, >> > > > > > > Caty >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Guillaume >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new >> item of >> > > > the >> > > > > > same >> > > > > > > > > type >> > > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we >> do >> > > this >> > > > > in >> > > > > > an >> > > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic >> > > > solution. >> > > > > > It's >> > > > > > > > > also >> > > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module >> (that we >> > > > > don't >> > > > > > > > have >> > > > > > > > > in >> > > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it >> > > > > > > > > > < >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >>
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
>> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ). >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Guillaume >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the >> new >> > > > > location >> > > > > > > > looks >> > > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right >> language >> > > > > specific >> > > > > > > > brains >> > > > > > > > > >> are >> > > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates >> (i.e. >> > > > next >> > > > > > to >> > > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen >> > > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my >> mind) >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near >> the Edit >> > > > > > button, >> > > > > > > > > even >> > > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it >> groups >> > > the >> > > > > > most >> > > > > > > > > basic >> > > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to >> > > contribute: >> > > > > > EDIT, >> > > > > > > > ADD. >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's >> quite an >> > > > > > > important >> > > > > > > > > >> aspect >> > > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which >> I like >> > > > > :)), >> > > > > > > it`s >> > > > > > > > > hard >> > > > > > > > > >> > to miss. >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do >> others see >> > > a >> > > > > > > problem >> > > > > > > > > here >> > > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, >> > > > > > > > > >> > Eduard >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> devs@xwiki.org >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > > > > -- > Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > Committer on the XWiki.org project >
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <valicac@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re more or less back where we started from, with the "improvement" that the "Add" button is now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :)
Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the only downside is that awkward feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However, it's never a question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works best in practice and what makes sense.
Hi,
Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the original Flamingo proposal "which we all agreed on". Apparently this is the reason some of the things changed: listening to different opinions.
One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that when we proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these 'concerns' should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of discussions should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase.
I completely agree with you on that point. And this is true for UI, as well as anything else on this project. We always need it realized to received criticisms. This probably a consequence of the fact that we are all very busy. That said, I do not remember seing a proposal that look like the current result. And your initial proposal does not exhibit the issue we are actually discussing, which have been mainly started because of the add wiki option.
It was always in the initial proposal http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4x and more explicitly in the Menus section http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4xMenus
Cathy, you have not read me carefully, where do you see an option to add a wiki in those proposals ?
Also all the changes proposed in Flamingo, where discussed before. We used 'Add' naming because 'Create' was less used 'in the wild', was shorter, etc. We moved the Add (from the Colibri position) because some users
find
it difficult to locate, wanted to improve the actions grouping, etc.
I agree, what I am proposing actually only came from the current discussion and the evolution of it. It is not always easy to imagine good UI without tasting it for real. I think we should not care too much, and we should look forward to finally getting the best UI ever, even if the process is not academic.
----
I liked the Colibri's 'Add' position and I just want us to make this
change
because we think that is the best place for it, not because we are influenced and think another product might have the magic solution to our problems.
If you consider that after a 'period of testing' that location is not the best place for the 'Add' button to be, than I agree we can 'revert' the change. IMO the menus are still not optimal, but I guess only testing could give us an impartial answer. I would have liked a bit more time to test this solution with 'normal' users, and I hope we don't do this change because regular/advanced users had a hard time to adapt to it. I will repeat myself, I think skins are allowed to have differences (but maybe testing different solutions would be more acceptable if we had more skins or changed them more often).
I do not think we are complaining because we are advance, only because it mixup "out of context" and "in context" actions. Which is for the end user, surely a source of confusion.
Cathy, do not feel too upset of all these changes, you have made a great job preparing this new skin, it just need polishing as any of what we do. I know it is frustrating that preview are not look at carefully enough, but that's life :)
:)
Thanks, Caty
Thanks, Caty
Regarding the addition of yet another "Add" button for page-related entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such a good idea. I
never
did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK, they are not recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) classes
either,
for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are not friendly with the browser's "Back" button. I think we already have enough shortcuts in the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit' dropdown.
Thanks, Eduard
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie"
Delhumeau
<
gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
> Even better: > http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :)
I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create".
Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called "Add" to add to the page: * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button normally) * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom), * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all existing objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to manage addition of new ones, AWSeconds)
This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the bottom is removed.
Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I misunderstood.
It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow application to hook both of them depending on their needs.
Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, annotation should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them (including the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a seperate checkbox.
WDYT ?
> > 2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>: > > > So basically, you want: > >
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
> > > > 2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net < vincent@massol.net : > > > > > >> > >> On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge ( guillaume@xwiki.com > (mailto: > >> guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote: > >> > >> > Hi, > >> > > >> > after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion > that > >> > would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The > idea > >> > would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the > >> "Add" > >> > button in its place. > >> > > >> > Crude image explanation here: > >> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png > >> > > >> > This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that > >> is > >> > contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to > this, > >> > since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too > >> much > >> > in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and > >> "More > >> > actions" buttons separated from one another. > >> > > >> > WDYT? > >> > >> Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create > >> button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me). > >> > >> FYI here’s what they have for: > >> - confluence: > >> >
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
> >> - jira: > >> >
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
> >> > >> Thanks > >> -Vincent > >> > >> > Guillaume > >> > ᐧ > >> > > >> > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote: > >> > > >> > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > Hi, > >> > > > > >> > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > >> > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > >> > > > > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > >> > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Hi, > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > >> > > > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > >> > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > >> > > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > >> > > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > >> > > > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > >> > > > > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume > >> "Louis-Marie" > >> > > > > > Delhumeau < > >> > > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > >> > > > enygma2002@gmail.com > >> > > > > >: > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion > started > >> on > >> > > this > >> > > > > > > topic, > >> > > > > > > > > but > >> > > > > > > > > >> in > >> > > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start > >> being > >> > > > > confused > >> > > > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is > >> > > problematic > >> > > > > IMO > >> > > > > > > for > >> > > > > > > > a > >> > > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds > >> > > page-related > >> > > > > > > entries > >> > > > > > > > > (i.e. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current > >> location > >> > > > > (i.e. > >> > > > > > in > >> > > > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > >> page > >> > > > > > > > > >> > content) > >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of > >> > > livetables. > >> > > > We > >> > > > > > > would > >> > > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we > >> > > > > instantiate > >> > > > > > a > >> > > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index > >> page, for > >> > > > the > >> > > > > > user > >> > > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File > >> Manager > >> > > then > >> > > > :) > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> >> > > > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with > >> support for > >> > > > > > custom > >> > > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the > >> > > 'Actions' > >> > > > > > column > >> > > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 > >> reasons > >> > > > why: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that > >> the > >> > > > Actions > >> > > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't > had > >> bulk > >> > > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity > >> selection > >> > > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row). > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" > >> column > >> > > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and > >> also > >> > > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be > >> used > >> > > in > >> > > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be > >> performed > >> > > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a > single > >> > > element action compared to 'delete'. > >> > > > >> > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is > more > >> of a > >> > > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well > >> if you > >> > > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. > >> > > > >> > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions > >> column > >> > > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox > >> column > >> > > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go. > >> > > > >> > > Thanks, > >> > > Eduard > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Guillaume > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, > >> > > > > Caty > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the > >> > > > "actions" > >> > > > > > column is for actions that are related to individual entries > >> that > >> > > > already > >> > > > > > exist > >> > > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable > creator > >> > > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on > >> pages > >> > > > such > >> > > > > as > >> > > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Best, > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Guillaume > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks, > >> > > > > > > Caty > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Guillaume > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new > >> item of > >> > > > the > >> > > > > > same > >> > > > > > > > > type > >> > > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now > we > >> do > >> > > this > >> > > > > in > >> > > > > > an > >> > > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic > >> > > > solution. > >> > > > > > It's > >> > > > > > > > > also > >> > > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module > >> (that we > >> > > > > don't > >> > > > > > > > have > >> > > > > > > > > in > >> > > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > >> > > > > > > > > > < > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ). > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the > >> new > >> > > > > location > >> > > > > > > > looks > >> > > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right > >> language > >> > > > > specific > >> > > > > > > > brains > >> > > > > > > > > >> are > >> > > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates > >> (i.e. > >> > > > next > >> > > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the > screen > >> > > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my > >> mind) > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near > >> the Edit > >> > > > > > button, > >> > > > > > > > > even > >> > > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it > >> groups > >> > > the > >> > > > > > most > >> > > > > > > > > basic > >> > > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to > >> > > contribute: > >> > > > > > EDIT, > >> > > > > > > > ADD. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's > >> quite an > >> > > > > > > important > >> > > > > > > > > >> aspect > >> > > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which > >> I like > >> > > > > :)), > >> > > > > > > it`s > >> > > > > > > > > hard > >> > > > > > > > > >> > to miss. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do > >> others see > >> > > a > >> > > > > > > problem > >> > > > > > > > > here > >> > > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Eduard > >> _______________________________________________ > >> devs mailing list > >> devs@xwiki.org > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) > > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > > Committer on the XWiki.org project > > > > > > -- > Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > Committer on the XWiki.org project > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs@xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re more or less back where we started from, with the "improvement" that the "Add" button is now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :)
Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the only downside is that awkward feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However, it's never a question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works best in practice and what makes sense.
Hi,
Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the original Flamingo proposal "which we all agreed on". Apparently this is the reason some of the things changed: listening to different opinions.
One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that when we proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these 'concerns' should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of discussions should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase.
I completely agree with you on that point. And this is true for UI, as well as anything else on this project. We always need it realized to received criticisms. This probably a consequence of the fact that we are all very busy. That said, I do not remember seing a proposal that look like the current result. And your initial proposal does not exhibit the issue we are actually discussing, which have been mainly started because of the add wiki option.
It was always in the initial proposal http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4x and more explicitly in the Menus section http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4xMenus
Cathy, you have not read me carefully, where do you see an option to add a wiki in those proposals ?
The current thread/discussion is about the new location of the "Add" menu, not about the "Add Wiki" option (please use the other thread for that). It was not started because of the "Add Wiki" option disagreement (that was just an example/excuse), but because this particular choice of location was never discussed/argued to begin with, even if the proposal received a positive feedback as a whole. IMO, that just proves that we did not analyse the proposal well enough, and maybe that some of us just preferred to assume stuff instead of asking/discussing. I think we should focus more on making it right instead of finding blame... Thanks, Eduard
Also all the changes proposed in Flamingo, where discussed before. We used 'Add' naming because 'Create' was less used 'in the wild', was
shorter,
etc. We moved the Add (from the Colibri position) because some users find it difficult to locate, wanted to improve the actions grouping, etc.
I agree, what I am proposing actually only came from the current discussion and the evolution of it. It is not always easy to imagine good UI without tasting it for real. I think we should not care too much, and we should look forward to finally getting the best UI ever, even if the process is not academic.
----
I liked the Colibri's 'Add' position and I just want us to make this
change
because we think that is the best place for it, not because we are influenced and think another product might have the magic solution to our problems.
If you consider that after a 'period of testing' that location is not the best place for the 'Add' button to be, than I agree we can 'revert' the change. IMO the menus are still not optimal, but I guess only testing could give us an impartial answer. I would have liked a bit more time to test this solution with 'normal' users, and I hope we don't do this change because regular/advanced users had a hard time to adapt to it. I will repeat myself, I think skins are allowed to have differences (but maybe testing different solutions would be more acceptable if we had more skins or changed them more often).
I do not think we are complaining because we are advance, only because it mixup "out of context" and "in context" actions. Which is for the end user, surely a source of confusion.
Cathy, do not feel too upset of all these changes, you have made a great job preparing this new skin, it just need polishing as any of what we do. I know it is frustrating that preview are not look at carefully enough, but that's life :)
:)
Thanks, Caty
Thanks, Caty
Regarding the addition of yet another "Add" button for page-related entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such a good
idea. I
never
did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK, they are not recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) classes either, for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are not friendly with the browser's "Back" button. I think we already have enough shortcuts in the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit' dropdown.
Thanks, Eduard
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote: > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > >> Even better: >>
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
> > > Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :) > > I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create". > > Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called "Add" to > add to the page: > * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button normally) > * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) > * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom), > * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all existing > objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to manage > addition of new ones, AWSeconds) >
> This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the > comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the bottom > is removed.
Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I misunderstood.
> It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual > create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow application > to hook both of them depending on their needs. > > Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, annotation > should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them (including > the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a > seperate checkbox. > > WDYT ? > > >> >> 2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < >> gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>: >> >> > So basically, you want: >> >
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
>> > >> > 2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net < vincent@massol.net : >> > >> > >> >> >> >> On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge ( guillaume@xwiki.com >> (mailto: >> >> guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote: >> >> >> >> > Hi, >> >> > >> >> > after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion >> that >> >> > would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The >> idea >> >> > would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the >> >> "Add" >> >> > button in its place. >> >> > >> >> > Crude image explanation here: >> >> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png >> >> > >> >> > This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that >> >> is >> >> > contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to >> this, >> >> > since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too >> >> much >> >> > in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and >> >> "More >> >> > actions" buttons separated from one another. >> >> > >> >> > WDYT? >> >> >> >> Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create >> >> button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me). >> >> >> >> FYI here’s what they have for: >> >> - confluence: >> >> >>
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
>> >> - jira: >> >> >>
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
>> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> -Vincent >> >> >> >> > Guillaume >> >> > ᐧ >> >> > >> >> > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge >> >> > > wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > > Hi, >> >> > > > >> >> > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >> >> > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < >> >> > > > > me@guillaumelerouge.com> >> >> > > > > wrote: >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > Hi, >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < >> >> > > > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < >> >> > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> >> >> > > > > > > wrote: >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Hi Marius, >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < >> >> > > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < >> >> > > > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> >> >> > > > > > > > > wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > > > Hi again, >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume >> >> "Louis-Marie" >> >> > > > > > Delhumeau < >> >> > > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < >> >> > > > enygma2002@gmail.com >> >> > > > > >: >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion >> started >> >> on >> >> > > this >> >> > > > > > > topic, >> >> > > > > > > > > but >> >> > > > > > > > > >> in >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start >> >> being >> >> > > > > confused >> >> > > > > > > and >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is >> >> > > problematic >> >> > > > > IMO >> >> > > > > > > for >> >> > > > > > > > a >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds >> >> > > page-related >> >> > > > > > > entries >> >> > > > > > > > > (i.e. >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current >> >> location >> >> > > > > (i.e. >> >> > > > > > in >> >> > > > > > > > the >> >> > > > > > > > > >> page >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > content) >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of >> >> > > livetables. >> >> > > > We >> >> > > > > > > would >> >> > > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we >> >> > > > > instantiate >> >> > > > > > a >> >> > > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index >> >> page, for >> >> > > > the >> >> > > > > > user >> >> > > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File >> >> Manager >> >> > > then >> >> > > > :) >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> >>
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
>> >> > > > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with >> >> support for >> >> > > > > > custom >> >> > > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the >> >> > > 'Actions' >> >> > > > > > column >> >> > > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 >> >> reasons >> >> > > > why: >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that >> >> the >> >> > > > Actions >> >> > > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't >> had >> >> bulk >> >> > > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity >> >> selection >> >> > > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row). >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" >> >> column >> >> > > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and >> >> also >> >> > > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be >> >> used >> >> > > in >> >> > > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be >> >> performed >> >> > > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a >> single >> >> > > element action compared to 'delete'. >> >> > > >> >> > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is >> more >> >> of a >> >> > > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well >> >> if you >> >> > > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. >> >> > > >> >> > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions >> >> column >> >> > > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox >> >> column >> >> > > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go. >> >> > > >> >> > > Thanks, >> >> > > Eduard >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Guillaume >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Thanks, >> >> > > > > Caty >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the >> >> > > > "actions" >> >> > > > > > column is for actions that are related to individual entries >> >> that >> >> > > > already >> >> > > > > > exist >> >> > > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable >> creator >> >> > > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on >> >> pages >> >> > > > such >> >> > > > > as >> >> > > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Best, >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Guillaume >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Thanks, >> >> > > > > > > Caty >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Guillaume >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new >> >> item of >> >> > > > the >> >> > > > > > same >> >> > > > > > > > > type >> >> > > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now >> we >> >> do >> >> > > this >> >> > > > > in >> >> > > > > > an >> >> > > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic >> >> > > > solution. >> >> > > > > > It's >> >> > > > > > > > > also >> >> > > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module >> >> (that we >> >> > > > > don't >> >> > > > > > > > have >> >> > > > > > > > > in >> >> > > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it >> >> > > > > > > > > > < >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> >>
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
>> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ). >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Guillaume >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the >> >> new >> >> > > > > location >> >> > > > > > > > looks >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right >> >> language >> >> > > > > specific >> >> > > > > > > > brains >> >> > > > > > > > > >> are >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates >> >> (i.e. >> >> > > > next >> >> > > > > > to >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the >> screen >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my >> >> mind) >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near >> >> the Edit >> >> > > > > > button, >> >> > > > > > > > > even >> >> > > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it >> >> groups >> >> > > the >> >> > > > > > most >> >> > > > > > > > > basic >> >> > > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to >> >> > > contribute: >> >> > > > > > EDIT, >> >> > > > > > > > ADD. >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's >> >> quite an >> >> > > > > > > important >> >> > > > > > > > > >> aspect >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which >> >> I like >> >> > > > > :)), >> >> > > > > > > it`s >> >> > > > > > > > > hard >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > to miss. >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do >> >> others see >> >> > > a >> >> > > > > > > problem >> >> > > > > > > > > here >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Eduard >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> devs mailing list >> >> devs@xwiki.org >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) >> > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS >> > Committer on the XWiki.org project >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) >> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS >> Committer on the XWiki.org project >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> devs@xwiki.org >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > > > > -- > Denis Gervalle > SOFTEC sa - CEO > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs@xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru < enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re more or less back where we started from, with the "improvement" that the "Add" button is now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :)
Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the only downside is that awkward feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However, it's never a question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works best in practice and what makes sense.
Hi,
Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the original Flamingo proposal "which we all agreed on". Apparently this is the reason some of the things changed: listening to different opinions.
One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that when we proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these 'concerns' should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of discussions should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase.
I completely agree with you on that point. And this is true for UI, as well as anything else on this project. We always need it realized to received criticisms. This probably a consequence of the fact that we are all very busy. That said, I do not remember seing a proposal that look like the current result. And your initial proposal does not exhibit the issue we are actually discussing, which have been mainly started because of the add wiki option.
It was always in the initial proposal http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4x and more explicitly in the Menus section http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4xMenus
Cathy, you have not read me carefully, where do you see an option to add a wiki in those proposals ?
The current thread/discussion is about the new location of the "Add" menu, not about the "Add Wiki" option (please use the other thread for that). It was not started because of the "Add Wiki" option disagreement (that was just an example/excuse), but because this particular choice of location was never discussed/argued to begin with, even if the proposal received a positive feedback as a whole.
Ok, let keep the button in place in this thread, and move it in the other one. How funny you are :)
IMO, that just proves that we did not analyse the proposal well enough, and maybe that some of us just preferred to assume stuff instead of asking/discussing.
I think, that I have clearly agree on that. Moreover, the proposal was fine for me (without the Add Wiki option), and this is you that initiate a discussion, after the fact, about the position of that button, isn't it ?
I think we should focus more on making it right instead of finding blame...
Have I blame anyone in particular, I just blame all of us for not taking enough care to proposals, and I also found us some excuse. What is wrong with that ?
Thanks, Eduard
Also all the changes proposed in Flamingo, where discussed before.
We
used
'Add' naming because 'Create' was less used 'in the wild', was shorter, etc. We moved the Add (from the Colibri position) because some users find it difficult to locate, wanted to improve the actions grouping, etc.
I agree, what I am proposing actually only came from the current discussion and the evolution of it. It is not always easy to imagine good UI without tasting it for real. I think we should not care too much, and we should look forward to finally getting the best UI ever, even if the process is not academic.
----
I liked the Colibri's 'Add' position and I just want us to make
this change
because we think that is the best place for it, not because we are influenced and think another product might have the magic solution to our problems.
If you consider that after a 'period of testing' that location is not the best place for the 'Add' button to be, than I agree we can 'revert' the change. IMO the menus are still not optimal, but I guess only testing could give us an impartial answer. I would have liked a bit more time to test this solution with 'normal' users, and I hope we don't do this change because regular/advanced users had a hard time to adapt to it. I will repeat myself, I think skins are allowed to have differences (but maybe testing different solutions would be more acceptable if we had more skins or changed them more often).
I do not think we are complaining because we are advance, only because it mixup "out of context" and "in context" actions. Which is for the end user, surely a source of confusion.
Cathy, do not feel too upset of all these changes, you have made a great job preparing this new skin, it just need polishing as any of what we do. I know it is frustrating that preview are not look at carefully enough, but that's life :)
:)
Thanks, Caty
Thanks, Caty
Regarding the addition of yet another "Add" button for
page-related
entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such a good idea. I never did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK, they are not recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) classes either, for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are not friendly with the browser's "Back" button. I think we already have enough shortcuts in the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit' dropdown.
Thanks, Eduard
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > >> Even better: > >>
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
> > > > > > Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :) > > > > I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create". > > > > Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called "Add" > to > > add to the page: > > * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button normally) > > * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) > > * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom), > > * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all > existing > > objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to manage > > addition of new ones, AWSeconds) > > > > > This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the > > comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the bottom > > is removed. > > Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. > Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea > IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the > content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I > misunderstood. > > > It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual > > create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow > application > > to hook both of them depending on their needs. > > > > Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, > annotation > > should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them > (including > > the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a > > seperate checkbox. > > > > WDYT ? > > > > > >> > >> 2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > >> gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>: > >> > >> > So basically, you want: > >> >
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
> >> > > >> > 2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net < vincent@massol.net : > >> > > >> > > >> >> > >> >> On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge ( guillaume@xwiki.com > >> (mailto: > >> >> guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > Hi, > >> >> > > >> >> > after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion > >> that > >> >> > would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The > >> idea > >> >> > would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put > the > >> >> "Add" > >> >> > button in its place. > >> >> > > >> >> > Crude image explanation here: > >> >> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png > >> >> > > >> >> > This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu > that > >> >> is > >> >> > contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to > >> this, > >> >> > since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not > too > >> >> much > >> >> > in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" > and > >> >> "More > >> >> > actions" buttons separated from one another. > >> >> > > >> >> > WDYT? > >> >> > >> >> Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create > >> >> button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me). > >> >> > >> >> FYI here’s what they have for: > >> >> - confluence: > >> >> > >> >
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
> >> >> - jira: > >> >> > >> >
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
> >> >> > >> >> Thanks > >> >> -Vincent > >> >> > >> >> > Guillaume > >> >> > ᐧ > >> >> > > >> >> > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > >> >> > > wrote: > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Hi, > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > >> >> > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > >> >> > > > > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > >> >> > > > > wrote: > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Hi, > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > < > >> >> > > > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > >> >> > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > >> >> > > > > > > wrote: > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea > < > >> >> > > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > >> >> > > > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > >> >> > > > > > > > > wrote: > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume > >> >> "Louis-Marie" > >> >> > > > > > Delhumeau < > >> >> > > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > >> >> > > > enygma2002@gmail.com > >> >> > > > > >: > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion > >> started > >> >> on > >> >> > > this > >> >> > > > > > > topic, > >> >> > > > > > > > > but > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> in > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people > start > >> >> being > >> >> > > > > confused > >> >> > > > > > > and > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is > >> >> > > problematic > >> >> > > > > IMO > >> >> > > > > > > for > >> >> > > > > > > > a > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds > >> >> > > page-related > >> >> > > > > > > entries > >> >> > > > > > > > > (i.e. > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current > >> >> location > >> >> > > > > (i.e. > >> >> > > > > > in > >> >> > > > > > > > the > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> page > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > content) > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of > >> >> > > livetables. > >> >> > > > We > >> >> > > > > > > would > >> >> > > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available > when we > >> >> > > > > instantiate > >> >> > > > > > a > >> >> > > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index > >> >> page, for > >> >> > > > the > >> >> > > > > > user > >> >> > > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File > >> >> Manager > >> >> > > then > >> >> > > > :) > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > >> >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> >> >> > > > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with > >> >> support for > >> >> > > > > > custom > >> >> > > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the > >> >> > > 'Actions' > >> >> > > > > > column > >> >> > > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least > 3 > >> >> reasons > >> >> > > > why: > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is > that > >> >> the > >> >> > > > Actions > >> >> > > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't > >> had > >> >> bulk > >> >> > > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity > >> >> selection > >> >> > > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each > row). > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" > >> >> column > >> >> > > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, > and > >> >> also > >> >> > > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded > to be > >> >> used > >> >> > > in > >> >> > > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be > >> >> performed > >> >> > > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a > >> single > >> >> > > element action compared to 'delete'. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is > >> more > >> >> of a > >> >> > > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as > well > >> >> if you > >> >> > > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions > >> >> column > >> >> > > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox > >> >> column > >> >> > > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to > go. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > Thanks, > >> >> > > Eduard > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > Guillaume > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > Thanks, > >> >> > > > > Caty > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas > the > >> >> > > > "actions" > >> >> > > > > > column is for actions that are related to individual > entries > >> >> that > >> >> > > > already > >> >> > > > > > exist > >> >> > > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable > >> creator > >> >> > > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions > on > >> >> pages > >> >> > > > such > >> >> > > > > as > >> >> > > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Best, > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Guillaume > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Thanks, > >> >> > > > > > > Caty > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Guillaume > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a > new > >> >> item of > >> >> > > > the > >> >> > > > > > same > >> >> > > > > > > > > type > >> >> > > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right > now > >> we > >> >> do > >> >> > > this > >> >> > > > > in > >> >> > > > > > an > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a > generic > >> >> > > > solution. > >> >> > > > > > It's > >> >> > > > > > > > > also > >> >> > > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation > module > >> >> (that we > >> >> > > > > don't > >> >> > > > > > > > have > >> >> > > > > > > > > in > >> >> > > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > >> >> > > > > > > > > > < > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > >> >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ). > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, > the > >> >> new > >> >> > > > > location > >> >> > > > > > > > looks > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right > >> >> language > >> >> > > > > specific > >> >> > > > > > > > brains > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> are > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it > creates > >> >> (i.e. > >> >> > > > next > >> >> > > > > > to > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the > >> screen > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now > to my > >> >> mind) > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located > near > >> >> the Edit > >> >> > > > > > button, > >> >> > > > > > > > > even > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because > it > >> >> groups > >> >> > > the > >> >> > > > > > most > >> >> > > > > > > > > basic > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to > >> >> > > contribute: > >> >> > > > > > EDIT, > >> >> > > > > > > > ADD. > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since > it's > >> >> quite an > >> >> > > > > > > important > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> aspect > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color > (which > >> >> I like > >> >> > > > > :)), > >> >> > > > > > > it`s > >> >> > > > > > > > > hard > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > to miss. > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do > >> >> others see > >> >> > > a > >> >> > > > > > > problem > >> >> > > > > > > > > here > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Eduard > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> devs mailing list > >> >> devs@xwiki.org > >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) > >> > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > >> > Committer on the XWiki.org project > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) > >> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > >> Committer on the XWiki.org project > >> _______________________________________________ > >> devs mailing list > >> devs@xwiki.org > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Denis Gervalle > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > devs@xwiki.org > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs@xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO
2014-10-02 1:59 GMT+02:00 Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu>:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru < enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, > > I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re more or less > back where we started from, with the "improvement" that the "Add" button is > now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :) > > Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the only downside is that awkward > feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However, it's never a > question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works best in > practice and what makes sense. >
Hi,
Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the original Flamingo proposal "which we all agreed on". Apparently this is the reason some of the things changed: listening to different opinions.
One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that when we proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these 'concerns' should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of discussions should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase.
I completely agree with you on that point. And this is true for UI, as well as anything else on this project. We always need it realized to received criticisms. This probably a consequence of the fact that we are all very busy. That said, I do not remember seing a proposal that look like the current result. And your initial proposal does not exhibit the issue we are actually discussing, which have been mainly started because of the add wiki option.
It was always in the initial proposal http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4x and more explicitly in the Menus section http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4xMenus
Cathy, you have not read me carefully, where do you see an option to add a wiki in those proposals ?
The current thread/discussion is about the new location of the "Add" menu, not about the "Add Wiki" option (please use the other thread for that). It was not started because of the "Add Wiki" option disagreement (that was just an example/excuse), but because this particular choice of location was never discussed/argued to begin with, even if the proposal received a positive feedback as a whole.
Ok, let keep the button in place in this thread, and move it in the other one. How funny you are :)
IMO, that just proves that we did not analyse the proposal well enough,
and
maybe that some of us just preferred to assume stuff instead of asking/discussing.
I think, that I have clearly agree on that. Moreover, the proposal was fine for me (without the Add Wiki option),
When the proposal was made, the "multi-wiki" feature was not bundled properly in XE (I was working on it), so it could explains why it was not in the proposal. When I did the implementation, I thought it was natural to put the "Add wiki" item there, like I did for Colibri and like Workspaces was doing. This is why, at the end, the implementation is not 100% like the proposal.
and this is you that initiate a discussion, after the fact, about the position of that button, isn't it ?
I think we should focus more on making it right instead of finding
blame...
Have I blame anyone in particular, I just blame all of us for not taking enough care to proposals, and I also found us some excuse. What is wrong with that ?
Thanks, Eduard
Also all the changes proposed in Flamingo, where discussed
before.
We
used
'Add' naming because 'Create' was less used 'in the wild', was shorter, etc. We moved the Add (from the Colibri position) because some users find it difficult to locate, wanted to improve the actions grouping, etc.
I agree, what I am proposing actually only came from the current discussion and the evolution of it. It is not always easy to imagine good UI without tasting it for real. I think we should not care too much, and we should look forward to finally getting the best UI ever, even if the process is not academic.
----
I liked the Colibri's 'Add' position and I just want us to make
this change
because we think that is the best place for it, not because we are influenced and think another product might have the magic solution to our problems.
If you consider that after a 'period of testing' that location is not the best place for the 'Add' button to be, than I agree we can 'revert' the change. IMO the menus are still not optimal, but I guess only testing could give us an impartial answer. I would have liked a bit more time to test this solution with 'normal' users, and I hope we don't do this change because regular/advanced users had a hard time to adapt to it. I will repeat myself, I think skins are allowed to have differences (but maybe testing different solutions would be more acceptable if we had more skins or changed them more often).
I do not think we are complaining because we are advance, only because it mixup "out of context" and "in context" actions. Which is for the end user, surely a source of confusion.
Cathy, do not feel too upset of all these changes, you have made a great job preparing this new skin, it just need polishing as any of what we do. I know it is frustrating that preview are not look at carefully enough, but that's life :)
:)
Thanks, Caty
Thanks, Caty
> > Regarding the addition of yet another "Add" button for
page-related
> entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such a good idea. I never > did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK, they are not > recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) classes either, > for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are not friendly with > the browser's "Back" button. I think we already have enough shortcuts in > the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit' dropdown. > > Thanks, > Eduard > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle < dgl@softec.lu> wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > >> Even better: > > >>
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
> > > > > > > > > Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :) > > > > > > I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create". > > > > > > Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called "Add" > > to > > > add to the page: > > > * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button > normally) > > > * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) > > > * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom), > > > * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all > > existing > > > objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to manage > > > addition of new ones, AWSeconds) > > > > > > > > This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the > > > comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the > bottom > > > is removed. > > > > Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. > > Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea > > IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the > > content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I > > misunderstood. > > > > > It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual > > > create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow > > application > > > to hook both of them depending on their needs. > > > > > > Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, > > annotation > > > should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them > > (including > > > the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a > > > seperate checkbox. > > > > > > WDYT ? > > > > > > > > >> > > >> 2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > > >> gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>: > > >> > > >> > So basically, you want: > > >> > >
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
> > >> > > > >> > 2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net < vincent@massol.net >: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge ( guillaume@xwiki.com > > >> (mailto: > > >> >> guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote: > > >> >> > > >> >> > Hi, > > >> >> > > > >> >> > after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a > suggestion > > >> that > > >> >> > would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. > The > > >> idea > > >> >> > would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put > > the > > >> >> "Add" > > >> >> > button in its place. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Crude image explanation here: > > >> >> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png > > >> >> > > > >> >> > This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu > > that > > >> >> is > > >> >> > contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to > > >> this, > > >> >> > since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not > > too > > >> >> much > > >> >> > in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" > > and > > >> >> "More > > >> >> > actions" buttons separated from one another. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > WDYT? > > >> >> > > >> >> Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the > Create > > >> >> button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me). > > >> >> > > >> >> FYI here’s what they have for: > > >> >> - confluence: > > >> >> > > >> > > >
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
> > >> >> - jira: > > >> >> > > >> > > >
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
> > >> >> > > >> >> Thanks > > >> >> -Vincent > > >> >> > > >> >> > Guillaume > > >> >> > ᐧ > > >> >> > > > >> >> > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote: > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > > >> >> > > wrote: > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > Hi, > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > >> >> > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > >> >> > > > > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > > >> >> > > > > wrote: > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Hi, > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru > (Valica) > > < > > >> >> > > > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > >> >> > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > >> >> > > > > > > wrote: > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru > Florea > > < > > >> >> > > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > < > > >> >> > > > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume > > >> >> "Louis-Marie" > > >> >> > > > > > Delhumeau < > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > > >> >> > > > enygma2002@gmail.com > > >> >> > > > > >: > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion > > >> started > > >> >> on > > >> >> > > this > > >> >> > > > > > > topic, > > >> >> > > > > > > > > but > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> in > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people > > start > > >> >> being > > >> >> > > > > confused > > >> >> > > > > > > and > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo > is > > >> >> > > problematic > > >> >> > > > > IMO > > >> >> > > > > > > for > > >> >> > > > > > > > a > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds > > >> >> > > page-related > > >> >> > > > > > > entries > > >> >> > > > > > > > > (i.e. > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its > current > > >> >> location > > >> >> > > > > (i.e. > > >> >> > > > > > in > > >> >> > > > > > > > the > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> page > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > content) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" > button > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot > of > > >> >> > > livetables. > > >> >> > > > We > > >> >> > > > > > > would > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available > > when we > > >> >> > > > > instantiate > > >> >> > > > > > a > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki > index > > >> >> page, for > > >> >> > > > the > > >> >> > > > > > user > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File > > >> >> Manager > > >> >> > > then > > >> >> > > > :) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > >> >> > > > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with > > >> >> support for > > >> >> > > > > > custom > > >> >> > > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by > the > > >> >> > > 'Actions' > > >> >> > > > > > column > > >> >> > > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the > 'Create' > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at > least > > 3 > > >> >> reasons > > >> >> > > > why: > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is > > that > > >> >> the > > >> >> > > > Actions > > >> >> > > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we > didn't > > >> had > > >> >> bulk > > >> >> > > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity > > >> >> selection > > >> >> > > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each > > row). > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the > "Actions" > > >> >> column > > >> >> > > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in > it, > > and > > >> >> also > > >> >> > > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded > > to be > > >> >> used > > >> >> > > in > > >> >> > > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can > be > > >> >> performed > > >> >> > > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a > > >> single > > >> >> > > element action compared to 'delete'. > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it > is > > >> more > > >> >> of a > > >> >> > > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as > > well > > >> >> if you > > >> >> > > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the > actions > > >> >> column > > >> >> > > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a > checkbox > > >> >> column > > >> >> > > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way > to > > go. > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > Thanks, > > >> >> > > Eduard > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > Guillaume > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > Thanks, > > >> >> > > > > Caty > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, > whereas > > the > > >> >> > > > "actions" > > >> >> > > > > > column is for actions that are related to individual > > entries > > >> >> that > > >> >> > > > already > > >> >> > > > > > exist > > >> >> > > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable > > >> creator > > >> >> > > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk > actions > > on > > >> >> pages > > >> >> > > > such > > >> >> > > > > as > > >> >> > > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Best, > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Guillaume > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Thanks, > > >> >> > > > > > > Caty > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Guillaume > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a > > new > > >> >> item of > > >> >> > > > the > > >> >> > > > > > same > > >> >> > > > > > > > > type > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right > > now > > >> we > > >> >> do > > >> >> > > this > > >> >> > > > > in > > >> >> > > > > > an > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a > > generic > > >> >> > > > solution. > > >> >> > > > > > It's > > >> >> > > > > > > > > also > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation > > module > > >> >> (that we > > >> >> > > > > don't > > >> >> > > > > > > > have > > >> >> > > > > > > > > in > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing > it > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > < > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ). > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, > > the > > >> >> new > > >> >> > > > > location > > >> >> > > > > > > > looks > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right > > >> >> language > > >> >> > > > > specific > > >> >> > > > > > > > brains > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> are > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it > > creates > > >> >> (i.e. > > >> >> > > > next > > >> >> > > > > > to > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the > > >> screen > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now > > to my > > >> >> mind) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located > > near > > >> >> the Edit > > >> >> > > > > > button, > > >> >> > > > > > > > > even > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because > > it > > >> >> groups > > >> >> > > the > > >> >> > > > > > most > > >> >> > > > > > > > > basic > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want > to > > >> >> > > contribute: > > >> >> > > > > > EDIT, > > >> >> > > > > > > > ADD. > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since > > it's > > >> >> quite an > > >> >> > > > > > > important > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> aspect > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color > > (which > > >> >> I like > > >> >> > > > > :)), > > >> >> > > > > > > it`s > > >> >> > > > > > > > > hard > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > to miss. > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do > > >> >> others see > > >> >> > > a > > >> >> > > > > > > problem > > >> >> > > > > > > > > here > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Eduard > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > >> >> devs mailing list > > >> >> devs@xwiki.org > > >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) > > >> > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > > >> > Committer on the XWiki.org project > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) > > >> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > > >> Committer on the XWiki.org project > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> devs mailing list > > >> devs@xwiki.org > > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Denis Gervalle > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > devs@xwiki.org > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > devs@xwiki.org > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs@xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
Hi, The Add - Wiki option was not in the proposal, since in that version Wikis were not enabled by default. The proposal just list the 'Add' entries available for that particular XE version. But as long as you have in a menu the option to create pages and spaces, is IMO implicit to also be able to create the wiki type entities, from consistency point of view. When we added Wikis by default, we had a dedicated proposal for the content of the 'Add' menu here http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements Thanks, Caty On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 2:59 AM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru < enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, > > I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re more or less > back where we started from, with the "improvement" that the "Add" button is > now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :) > > Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the only downside is that awkward > feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However, it's never a > question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works best in > practice and what makes sense. >
Hi,
Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the original Flamingo proposal "which we all agreed on". Apparently this is the reason some of the things changed: listening to different opinions.
One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that when we proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these 'concerns' should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of discussions should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase.
I completely agree with you on that point. And this is true for UI, as well as anything else on this project. We always need it realized to received criticisms. This probably a consequence of the fact that we are all very busy. That said, I do not remember seing a proposal that look like the current result. And your initial proposal does not exhibit the issue we are actually discussing, which have been mainly started because of the add wiki option.
It was always in the initial proposal http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4x and more explicitly in the Menus section http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4xMenus
Cathy, you have not read me carefully, where do you see an option to add a wiki in those proposals ?
The current thread/discussion is about the new location of the "Add" menu, not about the "Add Wiki" option (please use the other thread for that). It was not started because of the "Add Wiki" option disagreement (that was just an example/excuse), but because this particular choice of location was never discussed/argued to begin with, even if the proposal received a positive feedback as a whole.
Ok, let keep the button in place in this thread, and move it in the other one. How funny you are :)
IMO, that just proves that we did not analyse the proposal well enough,
and
maybe that some of us just preferred to assume stuff instead of asking/discussing.
I think, that I have clearly agree on that. Moreover, the proposal was fine for me (without the Add Wiki option), and this is you that initiate a discussion, after the fact, about the position of that button, isn't it ?
I think we should focus more on making it right instead of finding
blame...
Have I blame anyone in particular, I just blame all of us for not taking enough care to proposals, and I also found us some excuse. What is wrong with that ?
Thanks, Eduard
Also all the changes proposed in Flamingo, where discussed
before.
We
used
'Add' naming because 'Create' was less used 'in the wild', was shorter, etc. We moved the Add (from the Colibri position) because some users find it difficult to locate, wanted to improve the actions grouping, etc.
I agree, what I am proposing actually only came from the current discussion and the evolution of it. It is not always easy to imagine good UI without tasting it for real. I think we should not care too much, and we should look forward to finally getting the best UI ever, even if the process is not academic.
----
I liked the Colibri's 'Add' position and I just want us to make
this change
because we think that is the best place for it, not because we are influenced and think another product might have the magic solution to our problems.
If you consider that after a 'period of testing' that location is not the best place for the 'Add' button to be, than I agree we can 'revert' the change. IMO the menus are still not optimal, but I guess only testing could give us an impartial answer. I would have liked a bit more time to test this solution with 'normal' users, and I hope we don't do this change because regular/advanced users had a hard time to adapt to it. I will repeat myself, I think skins are allowed to have differences (but maybe testing different solutions would be more acceptable if we had more skins or changed them more often).
I do not think we are complaining because we are advance, only because it mixup "out of context" and "in context" actions. Which is for the end user, surely a source of confusion.
Cathy, do not feel too upset of all these changes, you have made a great job preparing this new skin, it just need polishing as any of what we do. I know it is frustrating that preview are not look at carefully enough, but that's life :)
:)
Thanks, Caty
Thanks, Caty
> > Regarding the addition of yet another "Add" button for
page-related
> entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such a good idea. I never > did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK, they are not > recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) classes either, > for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are not friendly with > the browser's "Back" button. I think we already have enough shortcuts in > the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit' dropdown. > > Thanks, > Eduard > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle < dgl@softec.lu> wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > >> Even better: > > >>
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
> > > > > > > > > Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :) > > > > > > I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create". > > > > > > Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called "Add" > > to > > > add to the page: > > > * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button > normally) > > > * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) > > > * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom), > > > * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all > > existing > > > objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to manage > > > addition of new ones, AWSeconds) > > > > > > > > This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the > > > comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the > bottom > > > is removed. > > > > Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. > > Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea > > IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the > > content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I > > misunderstood. > > > > > It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual > > > create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow > > application > > > to hook both of them depending on their needs. > > > > > > Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, > > annotation > > > should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them > > (including > > > the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a > > > seperate checkbox. > > > > > > WDYT ? > > > > > > > > >> > > >> 2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > > >> gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>: > > >> > > >> > So basically, you want: > > >> > >
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
> > >> > > > >> > 2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net < vincent@massol.net >: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge ( guillaume@xwiki.com > > >> (mailto: > > >> >> guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote: > > >> >> > > >> >> > Hi, > > >> >> > > > >> >> > after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a > suggestion > > >> that > > >> >> > would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. > The > > >> idea > > >> >> > would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put > > the > > >> >> "Add" > > >> >> > button in its place. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Crude image explanation here: > > >> >> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png > > >> >> > > > >> >> > This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu > > that > > >> >> is > > >> >> > contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to > > >> this, > > >> >> > since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not > > too > > >> >> much > > >> >> > in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" > > and > > >> >> "More > > >> >> > actions" buttons separated from one another. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > WDYT? > > >> >> > > >> >> Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the > Create > > >> >> button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me). > > >> >> > > >> >> FYI here’s what they have for: > > >> >> - confluence: > > >> >> > > >> > > >
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
> > >> >> - jira: > > >> >> > > >> > > >
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
> > >> >> > > >> >> Thanks > > >> >> -Vincent > > >> >> > > >> >> > Guillaume > > >> >> > ᐧ > > >> >> > > > >> >> > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote: > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > > >> >> > > wrote: > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > Hi, > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > >> >> > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > >> >> > > > > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > > >> >> > > > > wrote: > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Hi, > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru > (Valica) > > < > > >> >> > > > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > >> >> > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > >> >> > > > > > > wrote: > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru > Florea > > < > > >> >> > > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > < > > >> >> > > > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume > > >> >> "Louis-Marie" > > >> >> > > > > > Delhumeau < > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > > >> >> > > > enygma2002@gmail.com > > >> >> > > > > >: > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion > > >> started > > >> >> on > > >> >> > > this > > >> >> > > > > > > topic, > > >> >> > > > > > > > > but > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> in > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people > > start > > >> >> being > > >> >> > > > > confused > > >> >> > > > > > > and > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo > is > > >> >> > > problematic > > >> >> > > > > IMO > > >> >> > > > > > > for > > >> >> > > > > > > > a > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds > > >> >> > > page-related > > >> >> > > > > > > entries > > >> >> > > > > > > > > (i.e. > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its > current > > >> >> location > > >> >> > > > > (i.e. > > >> >> > > > > > in > > >> >> > > > > > > > the > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> page > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > content) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" > button > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot > of > > >> >> > > livetables. > > >> >> > > > We > > >> >> > > > > > > would > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available > > when we > > >> >> > > > > instantiate > > >> >> > > > > > a > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki > index > > >> >> page, for > > >> >> > > > the > > >> >> > > > > > user > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File > > >> >> Manager > > >> >> > > then > > >> >> > > > :) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > >> >> > > > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with > > >> >> support for > > >> >> > > > > > custom > > >> >> > > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by > the > > >> >> > > 'Actions' > > >> >> > > > > > column > > >> >> > > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the > 'Create' > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at > least > > 3 > > >> >> reasons > > >> >> > > > why: > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is > > that > > >> >> the > > >> >> > > > Actions > > >> >> > > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we > didn't > > >> had > > >> >> bulk > > >> >> > > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity > > >> >> selection > > >> >> > > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each > > row). > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the > "Actions" > > >> >> column > > >> >> > > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in > it, > > and > > >> >> also > > >> >> > > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded > > to be > > >> >> used > > >> >> > > in > > >> >> > > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can > be > > >> >> performed > > >> >> > > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a > > >> single > > >> >> > > element action compared to 'delete'. > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it > is > > >> more > > >> >> of a > > >> >> > > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as > > well > > >> >> if you > > >> >> > > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the > actions > > >> >> column > > >> >> > > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a > checkbox > > >> >> column > > >> >> > > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way > to > > go. > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > Thanks, > > >> >> > > Eduard > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > Guillaume > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > Thanks, > > >> >> > > > > Caty > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, > whereas > > the > > >> >> > > > "actions" > > >> >> > > > > > column is for actions that are related to individual > > entries > > >> >> that > > >> >> > > > already > > >> >> > > > > > exist > > >> >> > > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable > > >> creator > > >> >> > > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk > actions > > on > > >> >> pages > > >> >> > > > such > > >> >> > > > > as > > >> >> > > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Best, > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Guillaume > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Thanks, > > >> >> > > > > > > Caty > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Guillaume > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a > > new > > >> >> item of > > >> >> > > > the > > >> >> > > > > > same > > >> >> > > > > > > > > type > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right > > now > > >> we > > >> >> do > > >> >> > > this > > >> >> > > > > in > > >> >> > > > > > an > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a > > generic > > >> >> > > > solution. > > >> >> > > > > > It's > > >> >> > > > > > > > > also > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation > > module > > >> >> (that we > > >> >> > > > > don't > > >> >> > > > > > > > have > > >> >> > > > > > > > > in > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing > it > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > < > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > >> > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ). > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, > > the > > >> >> new > > >> >> > > > > location > > >> >> > > > > > > > looks > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right > > >> >> language > > >> >> > > > > specific > > >> >> > > > > > > > brains > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> are > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it > > creates > > >> >> (i.e. > > >> >> > > > next > > >> >> > > > > > to > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the > > >> screen > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now > > to my > > >> >> mind) > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located > > near > > >> >> the Edit > > >> >> > > > > > button, > > >> >> > > > > > > > > even > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because > > it > > >> >> groups > > >> >> > > the > > >> >> > > > > > most > > >> >> > > > > > > > > basic > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want > to > > >> >> > > contribute: > > >> >> > > > > > EDIT, > > >> >> > > > > > > > ADD. > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since > > it's > > >> >> quite an > > >> >> > > > > > > important > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> aspect > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color > > (which > > >> >> I like > > >> >> > > > > :)), > > >> >> > > > > > > it`s > > >> >> > > > > > > > > hard > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > to miss. > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do > > >> >> others see > > >> >> > > a > > >> >> > > > > > > problem > > >> >> > > > > > > > > here > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Eduard > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > >> >> devs mailing list > > >> >> devs@xwiki.org > > >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) > > >> > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > > >> > Committer on the XWiki.org project > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) > > >> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > > >> Committer on the XWiki.org project > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> devs mailing list > > >> devs@xwiki.org > > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Denis Gervalle > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > devs@xwiki.org > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > devs@xwiki.org > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs@xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
@All, it doesn’t really matter whether it was in a proposal or not… we don’t need to find culprits and again it’s normal to change one’s mind, especially after something has been released and tried out. If we don’t agree about the current location (and several of us don’t like it) we should do something about it and rather now than later (since we have the chance to release a 6.2.2 real soon and thus not have users use something we may not want for a lengthy period of time). Is anyone strongly against doing what GuillaumeD has shown in: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg ? (either with “Add” or “Create”, personally I don’t care that much but I do care about the move of the button + about the search bar move to the right) Thanks -Vincent On 2 Oct 2014 at 09:54:59, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (valicac@gmail.com(mailto:valicac@gmail.com)) wrote:
Hi,
The Add - Wiki option was not in the proposal, since in that version Wikis were not enabled by default. The proposal just list the 'Add' entries available for that particular XE version. But as long as you have in a menu the option to create pages and spaces, is IMO implicit to also be able to create the wiki type entities, from consistency point of view.
When we added Wikis by default, we had a dedicated proposal for the content of the 'Add' menu here http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/CreateWikiImprovements
Thanks, Caty
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 2:59 AM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com
wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Eduard Moraru < enygma2002@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I kind of like this proposal. As Jeremie pointed out, we`re more or less > > back where we started from, with the "improvement" that the "Add" button > is > > now in the middle of the page, hard to miss :) > > > > Now, if we also rename "Add" to "Create", the only downside is that > awkward > > feeling of more or less cloning Atlassian's UI. However, it's never a > > question of UI ownership or copying, but just of what works best in > > practice and what makes sense. > > > > Hi, > > Denis asked some days ago why some things changed from the original > Flamingo proposal "which we all agreed on". Apparently this is the reason > some of the things changed: listening to different opinions. > > One of the reasons I'm a bit upset with these discussions is that when we > proposed Flamingo, a prototype was also available, so all these 'concerns' > should have been noticed earlier, not in 6.2.1. These kind of discussions > should happen in the Proposal phase, not in the Testing phase. >
I completely agree with you on that point. And this is true for UI, as well as anything else on this project. We always need it realized to received criticisms. This probably a consequence of the fact that we are all very busy. That said, I do not remember seing a proposal that look like the current result. And your initial proposal does not exhibit the issue we are actually discussing, which have been mainly started because of the add wiki option.
It was always in the initial proposal http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4x and more explicitly in the Menus section http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Skin4xMenus
Cathy, you have not read me carefully, where do you see an option to add a wiki in those proposals ?
The current thread/discussion is about the new location of the "Add" menu, not about the "Add Wiki" option (please use the other thread for that). It was not started because of the "Add Wiki" option disagreement (that was just an example/excuse), but because this particular choice of location was never discussed/argued to begin with, even if the proposal received a positive feedback as a whole.
Ok, let keep the button in place in this thread, and move it in the other one. How funny you are :)
IMO, that just proves that we did not analyse the proposal well enough,
and
maybe that some of us just preferred to assume stuff instead of asking/discussing.
I think, that I have clearly agree on that. Moreover, the proposal was fine for me (without the Add Wiki option), and this is you that initiate a discussion, after the fact, about the position of that button, isn't it ?
I think we should focus more on making it right instead of finding
blame...
Have I blame anyone in particular, I just blame all of us for not taking enough care to proposals, and I also found us some excuse. What is wrong with that ?
Thanks, Eduard
> Also all the changes proposed in Flamingo, where discussed
before.
We
used > 'Add' naming because 'Create' was less used 'in the wild', was shorter, > etc. We moved the Add (from the Colibri position) because some users find > it difficult to locate, wanted to improve the actions grouping, etc. >
I agree, what I am proposing actually only came from the current discussion and the evolution of it. It is not always easy to imagine good UI without tasting it for real. I think we should not care too much, and we should look forward to finally getting the best UI ever, even if the process is not academic.
> > ---- > > I liked the Colibri's 'Add' position and I just want us to make this change > because we think that is the best place for it, not because we are > influenced and think another product might have the magic solution to our > problems. > > If you consider that after a 'period of testing' that location is not the > best place for the 'Add' button to be, than I agree we can 'revert' the > change. IMO the menus are still not optimal, but I guess only testing could > give us an impartial answer. I would have liked a bit more time to test > this solution with 'normal' users, and I hope we don't do this change > because regular/advanced users had a hard time to adapt to it. I will > repeat myself, I think skins are allowed to have differences (but maybe > testing different solutions would be more acceptable if we had more skins > or changed them more often). >
I do not think we are complaining because we are advance, only because it mixup "out of context" and "in context" actions. Which is for the end user, surely a source of confusion.
Cathy, do not feel too upset of all these changes, you have made a great job preparing this new skin, it just need polishing as any of what we do. I know it is frustrating that preview are not look at carefully enough, but that's life :)
:)
Thanks, Caty
> > Thanks, > Caty > > > > > > Regarding the addition of yet another "Add" button for
page-related
> > entries, as suggested by Denis, I`m not sure it's such a good idea. I > never > > did like modals that much in web interfaces and, AFAIK, they are not > > recommended that much in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction) classes either, > > for the simple reason that they are too volatile and are not friendly > with > > the browser's "Back" button. I think we already have enough shortcuts in > > the 'More Actions' section and the 'Edit' dropdown. > > > > Thanks, > > Eduard > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle < dgl@softec.lu> wrote: > > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Even better: > > > >> > http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :) > > > > > > > > I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create". > > > > > > > > Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called > "Add" > > > to > > > > add to the page: > > > > * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button > > normally) > > > > * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) > > > > * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the > bottom), > > > > * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all > > > existing > > > > objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to > manage > > > > addition of new ones, AWSeconds) > > > > > > > > > > > This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the > > > > comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the > > bottom > > > > is removed. > > > > > > Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. > > > Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea > > > IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the > > > content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I > > > misunderstood. > > > > > > > It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual > > > > create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow > > > application > > > > to hook both of them depending on their needs. > > > > > > > > Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, > > > annotation > > > > should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them > > > (including > > > > the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a > > > > seperate checkbox. > > > > > > > > WDYT ? > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> 2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > > > >> gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>: > > > >> > > > >> > So basically, you want: > > > >> > > >
http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
> > > >> > > > > >> > 2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net < vincent@massol.net > >: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> >> On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge ( > guillaume@xwiki.com > > > >> (mailto: > > > >> >> guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Hi, > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a > > suggestion > > > >> that > > > >> >> > would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. > > The > > > >> idea > > > >> >> > would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and > put > > > the > > > >> >> "Add" > > > >> >> > button in its place. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > Crude image explanation here: > > > >> >> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a > menu > > > that > > > >> >> is > > > >> >> > contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition > to > > > >> this, > > > >> >> > since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's > not > > > too > > > >> >> much > > > >> >> > in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the > "Edit" > > > and > > > >> >> "More > > > >> >> > actions" buttons separated from one another. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > WDYT? > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the > > Create > > > >> >> button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me). > > > >> >> > > > >> >> FYI here’s what they have for: > > > >> >> - confluence: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > >
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
> > > >> >> - jira: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > >
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
> > > >> >> > > > >> >> Thanks > > > >> >> -Vincent > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Guillaume > > > >> >> > ᐧ > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > > > >> >> > > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > Hi, > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > < > > > >> >> > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > >> >> > > > > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > > > >> >> > > > > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Hi, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru > > (Valica) > > > < > > > >> >> > > > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > >> >> > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > >> >> > > > > > > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru > > Florea > > > < > > > >> >> > > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume > Lerouge > > < > > > >> >> > > > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume > > > >> >> "Louis-Marie" > > > >> >> > > > > > Delhumeau < > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > > > >> >> > > > enygma2002@gmail.com > > > >> >> > > > > >: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion > > > >> started > > > >> >> on > > > >> >> > > this > > > >> >> > > > > > > topic, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > but > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> in > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people > > > start > > > >> >> being > > > >> >> > > > > confused > > > >> >> > > > > > > and > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo > > is > > > >> >> > > problematic > > > >> >> > > > > IMO > > > >> >> > > > > > > for > > > >> >> > > > > > > > a > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it > adds > > > >> >> > > page-related > > > >> >> > > > > > > entries > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > (i.e. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its > > current > > > >> >> location > > > >> >> > > > > (i.e. > > > >> >> > > > > > in > > > >> >> > > > > > > > the > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> page > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > content) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" > > button > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot > > of > > > >> >> > > livetables. > > > >> >> > > > We > > > >> >> > > > > > > would > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available > > > when we > > > >> >> > > > > instantiate > > > >> >> > > > > > a > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki > > index > > > >> >> page, for > > > >> >> > > > the > > > >> >> > > > > > user > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the > File > > > >> >> Manager > > > >> >> > > then > > > >> >> > > > :) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar > (with > > > >> >> support for > > > >> >> > > > > > custom > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by > > the > > > >> >> > > 'Actions' > > > >> >> > > > > > column > > > >> >> > > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the > > 'Create' > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at > > least > > > 3 > > > >> >> reasons > > > >> >> > > > why: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference > is > > > that > > > >> >> the > > > >> >> > > > Actions > > > >> >> > > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we > > didn't > > > >> had > > > >> >> bulk > > > >> >> > > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity > > > >> >> selection > > > >> >> > > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each > > > row). > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the > > "Actions" > > > >> >> column > > > >> >> > > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in > > it, > > > and > > > >> >> also > > > >> >> > > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be > expanded > > > to be > > > >> >> used > > > >> >> > > in > > > >> >> > > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions > can > > be > > > >> >> performed > > > >> >> > > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it > is a > > > >> single > > > >> >> > > element action compared to 'delete'. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it > > is > > > >> more > > > >> >> of a > > > >> >> > > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action > as > > > well > > > >> >> if you > > > >> >> > > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the > > actions > > > >> >> column > > > >> >> > > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a > > checkbox > > > >> >> column > > > >> >> > > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way > > to > > > go. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Thanks, > > > >> >> > > Eduard > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > Guillaume > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > Thanks, > > > >> >> > > > > Caty > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, > > whereas > > > the > > > >> >> > > > "actions" > > > >> >> > > > > > column is for actions that are related to individual > > > entries > > > >> >> that > > > >> >> > > > already > > > >> >> > > > > > exist > > > >> >> > > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable > > > >> creator > > > >> >> > > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk > > actions > > > on > > > >> >> pages > > > >> >> > > > such > > > >> >> > > > > as > > > >> >> > > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Best, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Guillaume > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > Thanks, > > > >> >> > > > > > > Caty > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create > a > > > new > > > >> >> item of > > > >> >> > > > the > > > >> >> > > > > > same > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > type > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. > Right > > > now > > > >> we > > > >> >> do > > > >> >> > > this > > > >> >> > > > > in > > > >> >> > > > > > an > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a > > > generic > > > >> >> > > > solution. > > > >> >> > > > > > It's > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > also > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation > > > module > > > >> >> (that we > > > >> >> > > > > don't > > > >> >> > > > > > > > have > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > in > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions > doing > > it > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > < > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > ). > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a > far, > > > the > > > >> >> new > > > >> >> > > > > location > > > >> >> > > > > > > > looks > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as > left-to-right > > > >> >> language > > > >> >> > > > > specific > > > >> >> > > > > > > > brains > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> are > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it > > > creates > > > >> >> (i.e. > > > >> >> > > > next > > > >> >> > > > > > to > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of > the > > > >> screen > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right > now > > > to my > > > >> >> mind) > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located > > > near > > > >> >> the Edit > > > >> >> > > > > > button, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > even > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. > Because > > > it > > > >> >> groups > > > >> >> > > the > > > >> >> > > > > > most > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > basic > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want > > to > > > >> >> > > contribute: > > > >> >> > > > > > EDIT, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > ADD. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since > > > it's > > > >> >> quite an > > > >> >> > > > > > > important > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> aspect > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color > > > (which > > > >> >> I like > > > >> >> > > > > :)), > > > >> >> > > > > > > it`s > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > hard > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or > do > > > >> >> others see > > > >> >> > > a > > > >> >> > > > > > > problem > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > here > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Eduard > > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> >> devs mailing list > > > >> >> devs@xwiki.org > > > >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > -- > > > >> > Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) > > > >> > Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > > > >> > Committer on the XWiki.org project > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) > > > >> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS > > > >> Committer on the XWiki.org project > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> devs mailing list > > > >> devs@xwiki.org > > > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Denis Gervalle > > > > SOFTEC sa - CEO > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > devs mailing list > > > > devs@xwiki.org > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > devs@xwiki.org > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > devs@xwiki.org > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > devs@xwiki.org > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Denis Gervalle <dgl@softec.lu> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Even better: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/19c9c68f-9dae-440e-ad82-3b8a6cc4623a.jpg
Yes that one looks very cool to me but... :)
I wonder if the name would not be better to be "Create".
Since, I think we still need an another button in the page called "Add" to add to the page: * annotations using modal (you may select, than use the button normally) * comment using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom) * attachement using a modal (without having to scroll to the bottom), * objects using a modal (without necessarily needing to load all existing objects for edit, so a page could show objects without having to manage addition of new ones, AWSeconds)
This way, the extradoc tabs could be hidden, independently of the comment/attachment functionality, and the pain of scrolling to the bottom is removed.
Adding a comment or uploading a file using a modal box is fine. Viewing the comments/attachments in a modal box is not a good idea IMO. The user expects to see the comments/attachments after the content. I don't think we can hide the extradoc tabs. Or maybe I misunderstood.
I am only talking about adding here, not about viewing. Viewing is already provided either at the bottom or on a separate page, so the bottom get optional.
It give also some logic to those button, with a non-contextual create button, and a contextual add button. We could then allow application to hook both of them depending on their needs.
Another, a bit off-topic, remarks, is that in the More actions, annotation should be isolated, and work like a toggle to display/hide them (including the author filter box and the tooltips), without needing to click a seperate checkbox.
WDYT ?
2014-10-01 10:59 GMT+02:00 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com>:
So basically, you want: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net <vincent@massol.net>:
On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com
(mailto:
guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi,
after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put
the
"Add"
button in its place.
Crude image explanation here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png
This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons separated from one another.
WDYT?
Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me).
FYI here’s what they have for: - confluence:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
- jira:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
Thanks -Vincent
Guillaume ᐧ
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<
> > > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" > > > > Delhumeau < > > > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < > > enygma2002@gmail.com > > > >: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on > this > > > > > topic, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > >> in > > > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being > > > confused > > > > > and > > > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is > problematic > > > IMO > > > > > for > > > > > > a > > > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds > page-related > > > > > entries > > > > > > > (i.e. > > > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current location > > > (i.e. > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> page > > > > > > > >> > content) > > > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of > livetables. > > We > > > > > would > > > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we > > > instantiate > > > > a > > > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for > > the > > > > user > > > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager > then > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for > > > > custom > > > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the > 'Actions' > > > > column > > > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons > > why: > > > > > > > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the > > Actions > > > column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk > > > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection > > > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row). > > > > > > > Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column > > should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also > > that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used > in > > a generic fashion by all livetables :-) > > > > Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed > in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single > element action compared to 'delete'. > > A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a > single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you > provide some kind of renaming template like '_'. > > In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column > have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column > like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go. > > Thanks, > Eduard > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the > > "actions" > > > > column is for actions that are related to individual entries that > > already > > > > exist > > > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator > > > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages > > such > > > as > > > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new item of > > the > > > > same > > > > > > > type > > > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do > this > > > in > > > > an > > > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic > > solution. > > > > It's > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we > > > don't > > > > > > have > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new > > > location > > > > > > looks > > > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language > > > specific > > > > > > brains > > > > > > > >> are > > > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. > > next > > > > to > > > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit > > > > button, > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups > the > > > > most > > > > > > > basic > > > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to > contribute: > > > > EDIT, > > > > > > ADD. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an > > > > > important > > > > > > > >> aspect > > > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like > > > :)), > > > > > it`s > > > > > > > hard > > > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see > a > > > > > problem > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > > > > >> > Eduard
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO
Hi, ᐧ On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 10:59 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
So basically, you want: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
That would be very cool yes :-) Maybe we could launch a vote on this? And as Edy pointed it out, the next step after this would be an improved "create" action with more info about the context (list of spaces, list of available templates...). With Flamingo, maybe we could also make that "create" step a modal box (same as for the export button) rather than an intermediate page. Thanks, Guillaume
2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net <vincent@massol.net>:
On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com
(mailto:
guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi,
after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the "Add" button in its place.
Crude image explanation here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png
This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons separated from one another.
WDYT?
Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me).
FYI here’s what they have for: - confluence:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
- jira:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
Thanks -Vincent
Guillaume ᐧ
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < me@guillaumelerouge.com> wrote:
> Hi, > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < guillaume@xwiki.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume
"Louis-Marie"
> Delhumeau < > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > >> > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < enygma2002@gmail.com >: > > > > >> > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this > > topic, > > > > but > > > > >> in > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused > > and > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO > > for > > > a > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related > > entries > > > > (i.e. > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. > in > > > the > > > > >> page > > > > >> > content) > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We > > would > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we instantiate > a > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the > user > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for > custom > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' > column > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons why: >
IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the Actions column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row).
Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used in a generic fashion by all livetables :-)
Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single element action compared to 'delete'.
A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you provide some kind of renaming template like '_'.
In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go.
Thanks, Eduard
Guillaume
Thanks, Caty
> > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the "actions" > column is for actions that are related to individual entries
that
already
> exist > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages such as > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > Best, > > Guillaume > > Thanks, > > Caty > > > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the > same > > > > type > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this in > an > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. > It's > > > > also > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we don't > > > have > > > > in > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location > > > looks > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific > > > brains > > > > >> are > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next > to > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit > button, > > > > even > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the > most > > > > basic > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: > EDIT, > > > ADD. > > > > >> > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an > > important > > > > >> aspect > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), > > it`s > > > > hard > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a > > problem > > > > here > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > >> > Eduard
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On 1 Oct 2014 at 11:05:17, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com(mailto:guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi, ᐧ
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 10:59 AM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
So basically, you want: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
That would be very cool yes :-)
Maybe we could launch a vote on this?
And as Edy pointed it out, the next step after this would be an improved "create" action with more info about the context (list of spaces, list of available templates...). With Flamingo, maybe we could also make that "create" step a modal box (same as for the export button) rather than an intermediate page.
Yes, FTR: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/37225b35-d635-43e1-b236-df47ce111bc1/... Thanks -Vincent
Thanks,
Guillaume
2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net :
On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com
(mailto:
guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi,
after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the "Add" button in its place.
Crude image explanation here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png
This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons separated from one another.
WDYT?
Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me).
FYI here’s what they have for: - confluence:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/...
- jira:
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
Thanks -Vincent
Guillaume ᐧ
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > me@guillaumelerouge.com> > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume
"Louis-Marie"
> > Delhumeau < > > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < enygma2002@gmail.com > >: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this > > > topic, > > > > > but > > > > > >> in > > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being > confused > > > and > > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic > IMO > > > for > > > > a > > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related > > > entries > > > > > (i.e. > > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current location > (i.e. > > in > > > > the > > > > > >> page > > > > > >> > content) > > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We > > > would > > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we > instantiate > > a > > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the > > user > > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for > > custom > > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' > > column > > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > > > > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons why: > > > > IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the Actions > column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk > actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection > (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row). >
Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used in a generic fashion by all livetables :-)
Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single element action compared to 'delete'.
A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you provide some kind of renaming template like '_'.
In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go.
Thanks, Eduard
Guillaume
> Thanks, > Caty > > > > > > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the "actions" > > column is for actions that are related to individual entries
that
already > > exist > > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator > > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on pages such > as > > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > > > Best, > > > > Guillaume > > > > Thanks, > > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the > > same > > > > > type > > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this > in > > an > > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. > > It's > > > > > also > > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we > don't > > > > have > > > > > in > > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new > location > > > > looks > > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language > specific > > > > brains > > > > > >> are > > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next > > to > > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit > > button, > > > > > even > > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the > > most > > > > > basic > > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: > > EDIT, > > > > ADD. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an > > > important > > > > > >> aspect > > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like > :)), > > > it`s > > > > > hard > > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a > > > problem > > > > > here > > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > > >> > Eduard
On 1 Oct 2014 at 11:00:10, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com(mailto:gdelhumeau@xwiki.com)) wrote:
So basically, you want: http://tof.canardpc.com/view/25ad0704-563e-41cd-bbf2-72c371912245.jpg
Sounds very good to me: - search is less visible on the right which is good - Create button is made very visible which is very good Thanks -Vincent
2014-10-01 10:46 GMT+02:00 vincent@massol.net :
On 1 Oct 2014 at 10:09:00, Guillaume Lerouge (guillaume@xwiki.com(mailto: guillaume@xwiki.com)) wrote:
Hi,
after discussing with Vincent this morning we came to a suggestion that would fix my issue with the current location of the add button. The idea would be to move the search bar to the left of the menu, and put the "Add" button in its place.
Crude image explanation here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hrxlj6n6pztigic/AddButton-Search.png
This way the "Add" button is back in a global menu, not in a menu that is contextual to the page, yet it stays very visible. In addition to this, since "Create wiki" is visible only to authorized users, it's not too much in the way. Last item: this solves the issue of having the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons separated from one another.
WDYT?
Sounds the best to me! :) I never really liked the move of the Create button in the page contextual menu (doesn’t make sense to me).
FYI here’s what they have for: - confluence: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/948c4f24-2485-4b33-8452-1e6e1a2d6c74/... - jira: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s119/sh/b8803c9b-4ea7-43dd-a2ed-1226080074f2/...
Thanks -Vincent
Guillaume ᐧ
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Eduard Moraru wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < me@guillaumelerouge.com> wrote:
> Hi, > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < guillaume@xwiki.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Marius, > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > > mariusdumitru.florea@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > guillaume@xwiki.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" > Delhumeau < > > > > > gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Eddy, > > > > >> > > > > >> 2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru < enygma2002@gmail.com >: > > > > >> > > > > >> > Hi devs, > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this > > topic, > > > > but > > > > >> in > > > > >> > my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused > > and > > > > >> > questions like this [1] start to be asked. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO > > for > > > a > > > > >> > various number of reasons: > > > > >> > - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related > > entries > > > > (i.e. > > > > >> > related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. > in > > > the > > > > >> page > > > > >> > content) > > > > >> > - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More generally speaking, this is true for a lot of livetables. We > > would > > > > > need a generic "Create" button to be available when we instantiate > a > > > > > livetable. This could be useful for the wiki index page, for the > user > > > > > directory, for all the AWM homepages... > > > > > > > > I guess you like the files live table from the File Manager then :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/File+Manager+Applicatio...
> > > > . Would be interesting to have such a toolbar (with support for > custom > > > > buttons) before the live table don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO the toolbar's functionality is already covered by the 'Actions' > column > > in the livetable. The only thing missing is the 'Create' > > > > I'm not sure this is the same use case. I can see at least 3 reasons why: >
IMO it's exactly the same use case, the only difference is that the Actions column was used as an intermediate solution because we didn't had bulk actions in livetable (the ability to make multiple entity selection (checkbox) - that's why we duplicate the entries on each row).
Great, this means that we agree on the fact that the "Actions" column should be replaced by a "Select" column with checkboxes in it, and also that Marius' horizontal livetable toolbar should be expanded to be used in a generic fashion by all livetables :-)
Not completely replaced because not all operations/actions can be performed in bulk fashion. Take the 'edit' action and notice that it is a single element action compared to 'delete'.
A different situation exists for the 'rename' action since it is more of a single element action, but can be presented as a bulk action as well if you provide some kind of renaming template like '_'.
In other words, both the bulk operations toolbar and the actions column have their right place in the livetable IMO and having a checkbox column like Marius did for the FM livetable looks like the right way to go.
Thanks, Eduard
Guillaume
Thanks, Caty
> > 1/ The "create" button would generate a new entry, whereas the "actions" > column is for actions that are related to individual entries that already > exist > 2/ The "actions" column can be removed by the livetable creator > 3/ The toolbar would also be useful to handle bulk actions on
pages
such
as > "delete selected entries" (as in the file manager) > > Best, > > Guillaume > > Thanks, > > Caty > > > > > > > > > Yes and yes :-) > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > Basically the button would let the user create a new item of the > same > > > > type > > > > > than the items displayed in the livetable. Right now we do this in > an > > > > > ad-hoc fashion, so it would be great to have a generic solution. > It's > > > > also > > > > > related to the automatic page name generation module (that we don't > > > have > > > > in > > > > > the core yet, though there's an extensions doing it > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > >
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Unique+Identification+N...
> > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location > > > looks > > > > >> > completely randomly selected: > > > > >> > -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific > > > brains > > > > >> are > > > > >> > trained to follow) > > > > >> > -- it's not exactly at the top either > > > > >> > -- it's not at the right > > > > >> > -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next > to > > > > >> > WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) > > > > >> > -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen > > > > >> > - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind) > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit > button, > > > > even > > > > >> if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the > most > > > > basic > > > > >> and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: > EDIT, > > > ADD. > > > > >> > > > > >> To me, it makes sense. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an > > important > > > > >> aspect > > > > >> > of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), > > it`s > > > > hard > > > > >> > to miss. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a > > problem > > > > here > > > > >> > with this as well? > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > > >> > Eduard
devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Eddy,
2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com>:
Hi devs,
I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but in my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and questions like this [1] start to be asked.
The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a various number of reasons: - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the page content) - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location looks completely randomly selected: -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains are trained to follow) -- it's not exactly at the top either -- it's not at the right -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind)
Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit button, even if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the most basic and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: EDIT, ADD.
To me, it makes sense.
I`m sorry, but that does not make sense to me. Actually I have found myself quite often almost clicking ADD when I wanted to perform an operation on the current document, like Edit or something from More Actions. At least if we`d group actions related to the current document somehow, but in no ways is it correct from my POV to have: 1 action for the current document, 1 action *not* for the current document and then "more actions" *for the current document*. It's like an usability "roller coaster". One not so great solution for the "roller coaster" problem would be to have the Add button first in the list. At least the focus would shift only once. Thanks, Eduard
I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important
aspect
of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s hard to miss.
Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem here with this as well?
Thanks, Eduard
---------- [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Hi Edy, On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < gdelhumeau@xwiki.com> wrote:
Hi Eddy,
2014-09-25 11:59 GMT+02:00 Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com>:
Hi devs,
I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but in my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and questions like this [1] start to be asked.
The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a various number of reasons: - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the page content) - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location looks completely randomly selected: -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains are trained to follow) -- it's not exactly at the top either -- it's not at the right -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind)
Personally, I like the fact that it is located near the Edit button, even if it does not concern the current page. Because it groups the most basic and useful actions that you need when you want to contribute: EDIT, ADD.
To me, it makes sense.
I`m sorry, but that does not make sense to me. Actually I have found myself quite often almost clicking ADD when I wanted to perform an operation on the current document, like Edit or something from More Actions.
At least if we`d group actions related to the current document somehow, but in no ways is it correct from my POV to have: 1 action for the current document, 1 action *not* for the current document and then "more actions" *for the current document*. It's like an usability "roller coaster".
One not so great solution for the "roller coaster" problem would be to have the Add button first in the list. At least the focus would shift only once.
Thanks, Eduard
I agree on this specifically (the issue of having the "Add" button being sandwiched between the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons). I'd be in favor of putting the "Add" button furthest to the right, with the "Edit" and "More actions" buttons coming first so that page-related actions come first, but the order you're suggesting would work as well. Guillaume
I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important aspect
of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s hard to miss.
Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem here with this as well?
Thanks, Eduard
---------- [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
-- Guillaume Delhumeau (gdelhumeau@xwiki.com) Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS Committer on the XWiki.org project _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi devs,
I`m not sure if we already have a discussion started on this topic, but in my opinion, it's long overdue. I see people start being confused and questions like this [1] start to be asked.
The new location of the Add menu in Flamingo is problematic IMO for a various number of reasons: - It falsely gives the impression that it adds page-related entries (i.e. related to the current page), due to its current location (i.e. in the page content) - It conflicts with AWM`s "Add new Entry" button - from my POV, looking at the page from a far, the new location looks completely randomly selected: -- It's not on the left/top (as left-to-right language specific brains are trained to follow) -- it's not exactly at the top either -- it's not at the right -- it's not next to the type of elements it creates (i.e. next to WIKI/SPACE/PAGE) -- it basically is almost in the middle of the screen - etc. (i.e. others that don`t come right now to my mind)
First of all, I agree that we must copy from one skin to another things that work, but I also believe that each skin could have their own characteristics. Flamingo skin brought some menu and panels changes and just time and user testing will reveal if the changes were beneficial. This doesn't mean that we should not experiment or keep just one style of interaction always. Second of all, the big reason why I proposed this menu entry changes were some user complains that the actions were not in a single place. They complained that the actions were scattered across the UI and you had to Add in one part, Edit in another, while Copy/Move/Delete in other part of the UI. Maybe the problem is that we didn't go the full way, that meaning remove or duplicate the page actions (copy, rename, delete) in the 'More actions' menu. This way we could have had all the actions at hand. [one of the reasons I didn't propose this was because I kind of like the actions consistency of wiki/space/page menus - being able to delete a wiki/space/page entity in the same manner]. Another reason why we moved the Add from top, was that it had some visibility problems: some users ignored it's position and couldn't find it, compared to the central location it has now. Also on customized instances the globalmenu was hidden from users (because wiki/space/page menu were considered to be complex) this way disabling the user from creating entities. Moving the Add from the globalmenu also gave the wiki/space/page breadcrumb more identity, separating a bit the navigation from actions. I like both solutions (Colibri and Flamingo) and I see arguments for both, that's why maybe for me is hard to decide if one way is better than the other. Thanks, Caty
I`d like to open a discussion on this, since it's quite an important aspect of the UI and, due to it's shiny green color (which I like :)), it`s hard to miss.
Is it just me who's resistant to change, or do others see a problem here with this as well?
Thanks, Eduard
---------- [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/rqcxryksa2ckjhpm _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
participants (10)
-
Denis Gervalle -
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) -
Eduard Moraru -
Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau -
Guillaume Lerouge -
Guillaume Lerouge -
Jeremie BOUSQUET -
Marius Dumitru Florea -
Thomas Mortagne -
vincent＠massol.net