Re: [xwiki-devs] [PROPOSAL] So, what display name for the new default flavor ?
* "Base XWiki Flavor” * “Classic XWiki Flavor” * “Raw XWiki Flavor” * “Starter XWiki Flavor” * "Default XWiki Flavor” * "Generic XWiki Flavor” * “Standard XWiki Flavor” * "XWiki Flavor” * "Vanilla XWiki"
Sorry to send this message without the threading references; I just subscribed to the devs@xwiki.org mailing-list and I would like to contribute my €0.02 to the discussion The items below are numbered for commenting convenience but are not ordered in any way. 1. The name XWiki already has its first letter at the end of the alphabet. Marketing-wise in the Software ecosystem, lists of apps are most often alphabetically sorted, granting a bonus to apps with a name in A, B or C, and a minus to the end of the alphabet. So all names there have to counterbalance that handicap and I think "self-descriptiveness" does matter. 2. if you except "XWiki Flavor", the word "XWiki" comes in second position in all proposals, and that is not the best thing ever. 3. the name must be chosen wrt the targeted audience and the product's position on the market. I think Olivier has a point when he writes « what is the audience and the objectives ? » 4. more specifically about the proposals above: 4.1. a "flavor" holds the notion of specialization. 4.2. "Classic" can mean "legacy" in the Software world. Use carefully... 4.3. "Vanilla" is a geeky choice. Nobody else but geeks will get it,sorry. IMHO, "XWiki Foundation", "XWiki Core" or "XWiki Starter Kit" represent quite well what this is all about. </Daniel>
Hi, Daniel, On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 1:42 PM, daniel glazman <daniel.glazman@xwiki.com> wrote:
* "Base XWiki Flavor” * “Classic XWiki Flavor” * “Raw XWiki Flavor” * “Starter XWiki Flavor” * "Default XWiki Flavor” * "Generic XWiki Flavor” * “Standard XWiki Flavor” * "XWiki Flavor” * "Vanilla XWiki"
Sorry to send this message without the threading references; I just subscribed to the devs@xwiki.org mailing-list and I would like to contribute my €0.02 to the discussion The items below are numbered for commenting convenience but are not ordered in any way.
1. The name XWiki already has its first letter at the end of the alphabet. Marketing-wise in the Software ecosystem, lists of apps are most often alphabetically sorted, granting a bonus to apps with a name in A, B or C, and a minus to the end of the alphabet. So all names there have to counterbalance that handicap and I think "self-descriptiveness" does matter.
2. if you except "XWiki Flavor", the word "XWiki" comes in second position in all proposals, and that is not the best thing ever.
So you`re suggesting "XWiki Standard" instead of "Standard XWiki Flavor", right? Sounds good to me, specially since I`m not a fan of dragging along the word "Flavor" when the result will be displayed in a list of "flavors" (i.e. it's redundant).
3. the name must be chosen wrt the targeted audience and the product's position on the market. I think Olivier has a point when he writes « what is the audience and the objectives ? »
4. more specifically about the proposals above:
4.1. a "flavor" holds the notion of specialization.
4.2. "Classic" can mean "legacy" in the Software world. Use carefully...
4.3. "Vanilla" is a geeky choice. Nobody else but geeks will get it,sorry.
IMHO, "XWiki Foundation", "XWiki Core" or "XWiki Starter Kit" represent quite well what this is all about.
I think you`re mixing it with the Minimal (/Base/Core) flavor. We`re currently addressing the flavor that is to mirror the current XE distribution, with all the bells and whistles (hence the "Standard"/"Default" suggestions). It builds upon the Minimal distribution (like other flavors should do). Thanks, Eduard
</Daniel>
On 13 Jun 2017, at 14:48, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Daniel,
On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 1:42 PM, daniel glazman <daniel.glazman@xwiki.com> wrote:
* "Base XWiki Flavor” * “Classic XWiki Flavor” * “Raw XWiki Flavor” * “Starter XWiki Flavor” * "Default XWiki Flavor” * "Generic XWiki Flavor” * “Standard XWiki Flavor” * "XWiki Flavor” * "Vanilla XWiki"
Sorry to send this message without the threading references; I just subscribed to the devs@xwiki.org mailing-list and I would like to contribute my €0.02 to the discussion The items below are numbered for commenting convenience but are not ordered in any way.
1. The name XWiki already has its first letter at the end of the alphabet. Marketing-wise in the Software ecosystem, lists of apps are most often alphabetically sorted, granting a bonus to apps with a name in A, B or C, and a minus to the end of the alphabet. So all names there have to counterbalance that handicap and I think "self-descriptiveness" does matter.
2. if you except "XWiki Flavor", the word "XWiki" comes in second position in all proposals, and that is not the best thing ever.
So you`re suggesting "XWiki Standard" instead of "Standard XWiki Flavor", right? Sounds good to me, specially since I`m not a fan of dragging along the word "Flavor" when the result will be displayed in a list of "flavors" (i.e. it's redundant).
This is what I said in my previous email too. And BTW we may not need to drag “XWiki” either, especially since I’ve suggested to display the “developed by” in the DW UI so that users know who developed it and who’s supporting it. Now, the full name outside of the DW context would still be "<affiliation> <qualifier> Flavor”, as in "XWiki Standard Flavor”, “XWiki SAS Procedure Flavor”, “XWiki Demo Flavor”, etc. Thanks -Vincent
3. the name must be chosen wrt the targeted audience and the product's position on the market. I think Olivier has a point when he writes « what is the audience and the objectives ? »
4. more specifically about the proposals above:
4.1. a "flavor" holds the notion of specialization.
4.2. "Classic" can mean "legacy" in the Software world. Use carefully...
4.3. "Vanilla" is a geeky choice. Nobody else but geeks will get it,sorry.
IMHO, "XWiki Foundation", "XWiki Core" or "XWiki Starter Kit" represent quite well what this is all about.
I think you`re mixing it with the Minimal (/Base/Core) flavor. We`re currently addressing the flavor that is to mirror the current XE distribution, with all the bells and whistles (hence the "Standard"/"Default" suggestions). It builds upon the Minimal distribution (like other flavors should do).
Thanks, Eduard
</Daniel>
The examples given are the names of the extension so what you see in Extension Manager which is not a specific Flavor context. As for having a different name in the Flavor picker and Extension Manager this is a feature that would need to be added since there is no flavor name property right now in the extension descriptor (but sure it's not very complex technically). On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Vincent Massol <vincent@massol.net> wrote:
On 13 Jun 2017, at 14:48, Eduard Moraru <enygma2002@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Daniel,
On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 1:42 PM, daniel glazman <daniel.glazman@xwiki.com> wrote:
* "Base XWiki Flavor” * “Classic XWiki Flavor” * “Raw XWiki Flavor” * “Starter XWiki Flavor” * "Default XWiki Flavor” * "Generic XWiki Flavor” * “Standard XWiki Flavor” * "XWiki Flavor” * "Vanilla XWiki"
Sorry to send this message without the threading references; I just subscribed to the devs@xwiki.org mailing-list and I would like to contribute my €0.02 to the discussion The items below are numbered for commenting convenience but are not ordered in any way.
1. The name XWiki already has its first letter at the end of the alphabet. Marketing-wise in the Software ecosystem, lists of apps are most often alphabetically sorted, granting a bonus to apps with a name in A, B or C, and a minus to the end of the alphabet. So all names there have to counterbalance that handicap and I think "self-descriptiveness" does matter.
2. if you except "XWiki Flavor", the word "XWiki" comes in second position in all proposals, and that is not the best thing ever.
So you`re suggesting "XWiki Standard" instead of "Standard XWiki Flavor", right? Sounds good to me, specially since I`m not a fan of dragging along the word "Flavor" when the result will be displayed in a list of "flavors" (i.e. it's redundant).
This is what I said in my previous email too. And BTW we may not need to drag “XWiki” either, especially since I’ve suggested to display the “developed by” in the DW UI so that users know who developed it and who’s supporting it.
Now, the full name outside of the DW context would still be "<affiliation> <qualifier> Flavor”, as in "XWiki Standard Flavor”, “XWiki SAS Procedure Flavor”, “XWiki Demo Flavor”, etc.
Thanks -Vincent
3. the name must be chosen wrt the targeted audience and the product's position on the market. I think Olivier has a point when he writes « what is the audience and the objectives ? »
4. more specifically about the proposals above:
4.1. a "flavor" holds the notion of specialization.
4.2. "Classic" can mean "legacy" in the Software world. Use carefully...
4.3. "Vanilla" is a geeky choice. Nobody else but geeks will get it,sorry.
IMHO, "XWiki Foundation", "XWiki Core" or "XWiki Starter Kit" represent quite well what this is all about.
I think you`re mixing it with the Minimal (/Base/Core) flavor. We`re currently addressing the flavor that is to mirror the current XE distribution, with all the bells and whistles (hence the "Standard"/"Default" suggestions). It builds upon the Minimal distribution (like other flavors should do).
Thanks, Eduard
</Daniel>
-- Thomas Mortagne
So you`re suggesting "XWiki Standard" instead of "Standard XWiki Flavor", right? Sounds good to me, specially since I`m not a fan of dragging along the word "Flavor" when the result will be displayed in a list of "flavors" (i.e. it's redundant).
Yes.
I think you`re mixing it with the Minimal (/Base/Core) flavor.
No, I'm not making that confusion. </Daniel>
So the last proposal still standing is "Standard", release is Monday so let's declare it the winner :) On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 3:41 PM, daniel glazman <daniel.glazman@xwiki.com> wrote:
So you`re suggesting "XWiki Standard" instead of "Standard XWiki Flavor", right? Sounds good to me, specially since I`m not a fan of dragging along the word "Flavor" when the result will be displayed in a list of "flavors" (i.e. it's redundant).
Yes.
I think you`re mixing it with the Minimal (/Base/Core) flavor.
No, I'm not making that confusion.
</Daniel>
-- Thomas Mortagne
Le 16 juin 2017 à 09:22, Thomas Mortagne <thomas.mortagne@xwiki.com> a écrit :
So the last proposal still standing is "Standard", release is Monday so let's declare it the winner :)
Wait. I never said my preference goes to "Standard" ! You asked me what would be my choice between a given name and the same name with a trailing "Flavor". I said the former is better, that's all. </Daniel>
I'm not talking specifically to you. This is just a summary of the thread and everything got a -1 except "Standard". On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 10:08 AM, daniel glazman <daniel.glazman@xwiki.com> wrote:
Le 16 juin 2017 à 09:22, Thomas Mortagne <thomas.mortagne@xwiki.com> a écrit :
So the last proposal still standing is "Standard", release is Monday so let's declare it the winner :)
Wait. I never said my preference goes to "Standard" ! You asked me what would be my choice between a given name and the same name with a trailing "Flavor". I said the former is better, that's all.
</Daniel>
-- Thomas Mortagne
Le 16 juin 2017 à 10:17, Thomas Mortagne <thomas.mortagne@xwiki.com> a écrit :
I'm not talking specifically to you.
Ok. That wasn't clear since you were replying to my message.
This is just a summary of the thread and everything got a -1 except "Standard".
Not sure it's the best choice from a Sales' point of view. </Daniel>
On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 10:19 AM, daniel glazman <daniel.glazman@xwiki.com> wrote:
Le 16 juin 2017 à 10:17, Thomas Mortagne <thomas.mortagne@xwiki.com> a écrit :
I'm not talking specifically to you.
Ok. That wasn't clear since you were replying to my message.
This is just a summary of the thread and everything got a -1 except "Standard".
Not sure it's the best choice from a Sales' point of view.
It's very possible but I need a name for Monday :) We can discuss that more later and change the display name, its just a line to change in a pom.xml.
</Daniel>
-- Thomas Mortagne
Hi Daniel,
On 16 Jun 2017, at 10:19, daniel glazman <daniel.glazman@xwiki.com> wrote:
Le 16 juin 2017 à 10:17, Thomas Mortagne <thomas.mortagne@xwiki.com> a écrit :
I'm not talking specifically to you.
Ok. That wasn't clear since you were replying to my message.
This is just a summary of the thread and everything got a -1 except "Standard".
Not sure it's the best choice from a Sales' point of view.
There’s no sales involved here...This is an open source project and it’s not sold ;) Maybe you meant “marketing” (which has a meaning in open source projects). Sure, that’s your opinion (you may even be right!) but not the one of the others who replied. We’ll still be able to change the name between 9.5RC1 and final, and even in the future if we find it’s not good enough or if we find a better one that we like more. You should also know that this project is a meritocracy and has a Governance defined and the binding votes/decisions are done by the XWiki Committers (see http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/Governance and http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/Committership). Thanks -Vincent
</Daniel>
participants (4)
-
daniel glazman -
Eduard Moraru -
Thomas Mortagne -
Vincent Massol