[xwiki-users] [Proposal][UX] Feedback for Visible Save buttons
Hi, We had some users complaining that the first time they edit a page they don't know how to save it. Depending on the screen resolution, the save buttons since they are at the bottom of the page are not visible and some users don't know they need to scroll in order to see them. We want to make some changes to XWiki, that: - Display the save buttons in a fixed bottom bar, when they are out of the viewport, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBa... - When the user scroll, the buttons go into their position, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/after.pn... - We compacted the bottom functionalities (summary, minor, auto-save), see before: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/before.p... after: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/smallVie... What do you think about this proposal? Would it improve the visibility of the buttons? Do you have other ideas? Is it something we should implement? Thanks, Caty
I don't really use small viewports but if I did, my vote would be for http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/after.pn... The design is clean, flows and is intuitive. (Unless I've misunderstood you, and you are saying this is the way it looks now :) ) I have noticed that you have lost "Preview" from the compacted bar. Maybe make the left button preview, the right button is "Save & View" with a drop down for "Save & Continue" (like you have with the Edit/Settings button. Kind regards, Mahomed Hussein Custodian Data Centre Email: Mahomed@CustodianDC.com http://www.CustodianDC.com -----Original Message----- From: users [mailto:users-bounces@xwiki.org] On Behalf Of Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) Sent: 25 April 2017 18:22 To: XWiki Mailinglist <users@xwiki.org> Subject: [xwiki-users] [Proposal][UX] Feedback for Visible Save buttons Hi, We had some users complaining that the first time they edit a page they don't know how to save it. Depending on the screen resolution, the save buttons since they are at the bottom of the page are not visible and some users don't know they need to scroll in order to see them. We want to make some changes to XWiki, that: - Display the save buttons in a fixed bottom bar, when they are out of the viewport, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBa... - When the user scroll, the buttons go into their position, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/after.pn... - We compacted the bottom functionalities (summary, minor, auto-save), see before: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/before.p... after: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/smallVie... What do you think about this proposal? Would it improve the visibility of the buttons? Do you have other ideas? Is it something we should implement? Thanks, Caty
Hi, The proposal it's just one version, but the image you vote for is how it will look like, after the user scrolls. Yes, it is the new / proposed version, so I'm glad you like it. On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Mahomed Hussein <Mahomed@custodiandc.com> wrote:
I don't really use small viewports but if I did, my vote would be for http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/after.png
The design is clean, flows and is intuitive. (Unless I've misunderstood you, and you are saying this is the way it looks now :) )
I have noticed that you have lost "Preview" from the compacted bar. Maybe make the left button preview, the right button is "Save & View" with a drop down for "Save & Continue" (like you have with the Edit/Settings button.
I've removed the Preview for the WYSIWYG mode, but it would be necessary for the Wiki mode. Regarding the dropdown with the options, initially I iterated it but I don't quite like how it looked http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/5.png Thanks for our feedback, Caty
Kind regards,
Mahomed Hussein Custodian Data Centre Email: Mahomed@CustodianDC.com http://www.CustodianDC.com
-----Original Message----- From: users [mailto:users-bounces@xwiki.org] On Behalf Of Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) Sent: 25 April 2017 18:22 To: XWiki Mailinglist <users@xwiki.org> Subject: [xwiki-users] [Proposal][UX] Feedback for Visible Save buttons
Hi,
We had some users complaining that the first time they edit a page they don't know how to save it. Depending on the screen resolution, the save buttons since they are at the bottom of the page are not visible and some users don't know they need to scroll in order to see them.
We want to make some changes to XWiki, that: - Display the save buttons in a fixed bottom bar, when they are out of the viewport, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBar.png - When the user scroll, the buttons go into their position, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/after.png - We compacted the bottom functionalities (summary, minor, auto-save), see before: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/before.png after: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/smallViewPort.png
What do you think about this proposal? Would it improve the visibility of the buttons? Do you have other ideas? Is it something we should implement?
Thanks, Caty
Overall I like these changes. A couple of suggestions: No one in my community understands “Save and Continue” versus “Save and View”. Dropping the “and Continue” is a great step, but I would go farther and give “Save and View” the emphasis color (blue, in this case). That is the more highly understood behavior. “Save” (and continue editing) is useful but not as generally useful as “Save and View”. Especially if you are dropping Preview. FWIW, I use Preview more often from WYSIWYG mode since there is not a 1:1 translation of editor view to page view. Whereas, when I am editing source, I can predict how it will look most of the time. :) I would also move the Cancel button over next to the other buttons. If I had to rate which buttons I use the most frequently, “Cancel” would be at the top, followed by “Save and View,” followed very very distantly by “Save and Continue." Nice work! Craig
On Apr 25, 2017, at 6:21 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
We had some users complaining that the first time they edit a page they don't know how to save it. Depending on the screen resolution, the save buttons since they are at the bottom of the page are not visible and some users don't know they need to scroll in order to see them.
We want to make some changes to XWiki, that: - Display the save buttons in a fixed bottom bar, when they are out of the viewport, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBa... - When the user scroll, the buttons go into their position, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/after.pn... - We compacted the bottom functionalities (summary, minor, auto-save), see before: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/before.p... after: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/smallVie...
What do you think about this proposal? Would it improve the visibility of the buttons? Do you have other ideas? Is it something we should implement?
Thanks, Caty
Hi, On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xwiki@crw.xyz> wrote:
Overall I like these changes. A couple of suggestions:
No one in my community understands “Save and Continue” versus “Save and View”. Dropping the “and Continue” is a great step, but I would go farther and give “Save and View” the emphasis color (blue, in this case). That is the more highly understood behavior. “Save” (and continue editing) is useful but not as generally useful as “Save and View”. Especially if you are dropping Preview.
FWIW, I use Preview more often from WYSIWYG mode since there is not a 1:1 translation of editor view to page view. Whereas, when I am editing source, I can predict how it will look most of the time. :)
I would also move the Cancel button over next to the other buttons. If I had to rate which buttons I use the most frequently, “Cancel” would be at the top, followed by “Save and View,” followed very very distantly by “Save and Continue."
This is very interesting behavior. I would love to be able to have some usage stats, but with XWiki being installable and independently hosted, stats are always hard to get by. Personally I use "Save" a lot (I like to save often in order to not lose stuff), but I usually use the keyboard shortcut, not necessarily the button. It is true that 'Preview' in WYSIWYG has its usages, especially when using macros or nested macros, since the result is not accurate. Regarding "Save & View" I always do it as a final step, while I never use "Cancel" - i just navigate away or hit the browser's 'Back'. Also in terms of functionality the "Autosave" can be used instead of the "Save", so we can remove 'Save' (especially in case of advanced users). So the only stats I have are from the http://playground.xwiki.org from the past 2 months. These are the top 3 pages edited, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/UsageFeb... Now let's see the heatmaps: - Sandbox.WebHome: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-... - Sandbox.TestPage1: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-... - Sandbox.Test.WebHome: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-...
From these heatmaps we see that 'Preview' has the most usage and after is "Save&View", with no usage for "Save & Continue" and "Cancel". Not we need to take into account 2 aspects: Sandbox is used by first-time users of XWiki and they usually are afraid to mess things up so the Preview is comforting for them. Also in the current layout 'Preview' is the first button from left-to-right, so it's assumed as the primary action.
So if the initial proposal was 'varA', what do you think about 'varB'? - var A [Save; Save & View]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png - var B [Save & View; Preview]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png - var C [Save & View; Save]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png Note: users that went to 'Preview', usually come back to the previous view, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-... I left 'Cancel' at the end, in order to be the last button and have visibility (not get lost in all the other options). Users need to use it as an 'escape' route, so it's better to find it fast and always have a static position = last. For this usually the first and last positions are best. My initial rationale to remove 'Preview' from the WYSIWYG editor was that WYSIWYG does life preview, so I though not many users use it, since I never used it. Seeing the stats for newcomers is impressive, still it would be great if more advanced / long-term users of XWiki would summaries a bit their button usage, so we could take a more informed decision. XWiki needs to accommodate both newcomers, but also long term users. Thanks, Caty
Nice work!
Craig
On Apr 25, 2017, at 6:21 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
We had some users complaining that the first time they edit a page they don't know how to save it. Depending on the screen resolution, the save buttons since they are at the bottom of the page are not visible and some users don't know they need to scroll in order to see them.
We want to make some changes to XWiki, that: - Display the save buttons in a fixed bottom bar, when they are out of the viewport, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBar.png - When the user scroll, the buttons go into their position, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/after.png - We compacted the bottom functionalities (summary, minor, auto-save), see before: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/before.png after: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/smallViewPort.png
What do you think about this proposal? Would it improve the visibility of the buttons? Do you have other ideas? Is it something we should implement?
Thanks, Caty
I'm +1 with what Craig and Mahomed said ie : - Save & View to be highlighted in blue - Preview to be useful In order to incitate users to write add a summary of the modification, I think it would help to place the box it in the first position (like Confluence did) with a strong hint like : "What did you modify?" In my craziest dreams, I also saw a : "PDF preview" there so that I don't feel obliged to go to the Kebab "More actions" menu and search for it :-) -- <http://xwiki.com> * Olivier Sérès* * VP Business Development* oseres@xwiki.com skype: olivierseres Linkedin <https://fr.linkedin.com/in/olivierseres> Mobile : +33 6 61 31 2001 On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xwiki@crw.xyz> wrote:
Overall I like these changes. A couple of suggestions:
No one in my community understands “Save and Continue” versus “Save and View”. Dropping the “and Continue” is a great step, but I would go farther and give “Save and View” the emphasis color (blue, in this case). That is the more highly understood behavior. “Save” (and continue editing) is useful but not as generally useful as “Save and View”. Especially if you are dropping Preview.
FWIW, I use Preview more often from WYSIWYG mode since there is not a 1:1 translation of editor view to page view. Whereas, when I am editing source, I can predict how it will look most of the time. :)
I would also move the Cancel button over next to the other buttons. If I had to rate which buttons I use the most frequently, “Cancel” would be at the top, followed by “Save and View,” followed very very distantly by “Save and Continue."
Nice work!
Craig
On Apr 25, 2017, at 6:21 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
We had some users complaining that the first time they edit a page they don't know how to save it. Depending on the screen resolution, the save buttons since they are at the bottom of the page are not visible and some users don't know they need to scroll in order to see them.
We want to make some changes to XWiki, that: - Display the save buttons in a fixed bottom bar, when they are out of the viewport, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBar.png - When the user scroll, the buttons go into their position, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/after.png - We compacted the bottom functionalities (summary, minor, auto-save), see before: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/before.png after: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/smallViewPort.png
What do you think about this proposal? Would it improve the visibility of the buttons? Do you have other ideas? Is it something we should implement?
Thanks, Caty
Hi Caty, I am a fan of “B”. I like the idea of putting the changelog and autosave options above on a preceding row. I would argue that for most users, their eyes only see the leftmost buttons as the functionally useful area. Thus putting Cancel on the far right effectively “hides” the button. For the purposes of mobile, I think it is acceptable to hide the changelog and autosave options on small-screen resolutions. (Such as when I am editing from iPhone, I am highly unlikely to leave a changelog message anyway.) FWIW, taborder should be the following: 1. Edit input 2. Changelog input 3. Save button 4. Preview button 5. Cancel button 6. Autosave option My $0.02. :) Thanks, Craig
On Apr 26, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xwiki@crw.xyz <mailto:crw+xwiki@crw.xyz>> wrote:
Overall I like these changes. A couple of suggestions:
No one in my community understands “Save and Continue” versus “Save and View”. Dropping the “and Continue” is a great step, but I would go farther and give “Save and View” the emphasis color (blue, in this case). That is the more highly understood behavior. “Save” (and continue editing) is useful but not as generally useful as “Save and View”. Especially if you are dropping Preview.
FWIW, I use Preview more often from WYSIWYG mode since there is not a 1:1 translation of editor view to page view. Whereas, when I am editing source, I can predict how it will look most of the time. :)
I would also move the Cancel button over next to the other buttons. If I had to rate which buttons I use the most frequently, “Cancel” would be at the top, followed by “Save and View,” followed very very distantly by “Save and Continue."
This is very interesting behavior. I would love to be able to have some usage stats, but with XWiki being installable and independently hosted, stats are always hard to get by.
Personally I use "Save" a lot (I like to save often in order to not lose stuff), but I usually use the keyboard shortcut, not necessarily the button. It is true that 'Preview' in WYSIWYG has its usages, especially when using macros or nested macros, since the result is not accurate.
Regarding "Save & View" I always do it as a final step, while I never use "Cancel" - i just navigate away or hit the browser's 'Back'.
Also in terms of functionality the "Autosave" can be used instead of the "Save", so we can remove 'Save' (especially in case of advanced users).
So the only stats I have are from the http://playground.xwiki.org <http://playground.xwiki.org/> from the past 2 months. These are the top 3 pages edited, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/UsageFeb... <http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/UsageFebApr2017.png>
Now let's see the heatmaps: - Sandbox.WebHome: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-... <http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png> - Sandbox.TestPage1: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-... <http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png> - Sandbox.Test.WebHome: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-... <http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png>
From these heatmaps we see that 'Preview' has the most usage and after is "Save&View", with no usage for "Save & Continue" and "Cancel". Not we need to take into account 2 aspects: Sandbox is used by first-time users of XWiki and they usually are afraid to mess things up so the Preview is comforting for them. Also in the current layout 'Preview' is the first button from left-to-right, so it's assumed as the primary action.
So if the initial proposal was 'varA', what do you think about 'varB'? - var A [Save; Save & View]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png <http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png> - var B [Save & View; Preview]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png <http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png> - var C [Save & View; Save]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png <http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png>
Note: users that went to 'Preview', usually come back to the previous view, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-... <http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-preview.png>
I left 'Cancel' at the end, in order to be the last button and have visibility (not get lost in all the other options). Users need to use it as an 'escape' route, so it's better to find it fast and always have a static position = last. For this usually the first and last positions are best.
My initial rationale to remove 'Preview' from the WYSIWYG editor was that WYSIWYG does life preview, so I though not many users use it, since I never used it. Seeing the stats for newcomers is impressive, still it would be great if more advanced / long-term users of XWiki would summaries a bit their button usage, so we could take a more informed decision. XWiki needs to accommodate both newcomers, but also long term users.
Thanks, Caty
Nice work!
Craig
On Apr 25, 2017, at 6:21 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
We had some users complaining that the first time they edit a page they don't know how to save it. Depending on the screen resolution, the save buttons since they are at the bottom of the page are not visible and some users don't know they need to scroll in order to see them.
We want to make some changes to XWiki, that: - Display the save buttons in a fixed bottom bar, when they are out of the viewport, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBar.png - When the user scroll, the buttons go into their position, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/after.png - We compacted the bottom functionalities (summary, minor, auto-save), see before: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/before.png after: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/smallViewPort.png
What do you think about this proposal? Would it improve the visibility of the buttons? Do you have other ideas? Is it something we should implement?
Thanks, Caty
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xwiki@crw.xyz> wrote:
Hi Caty,
I am a fan of “B”.
I like the idea of putting the changelog and autosave options above on a preceding row. I would argue that for most users, their eyes only see the leftmost buttons as the functionally useful area. Thus putting Cancel on the far right effectively “hides” the button.
Yes, the most visible buttons are the ones on the left side and that's the purpose. We need people to see the Save button :) Now, 'summary' functionality is not mandatory when editing and can also be disabled from Administration - Editing. Having it on a separate line is not an option since we initial idea of the thread is to provide a fixed bottom bar, when the viewport is small. So there are all on a single bar in order to be compact.
For the purposes of mobile, I think it is acceptable to hide the changelog and autosave options on small-screen resolutions. (Such as when I am editing from iPhone, I am highly unlikely to leave a changelog message anyway.)
I haven't iterated much on the mobile version, but the mockup I have is http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/mobile.p... It can be improved, and as you said we could decide that on mobile we can hide some functionality, but again hard to have stats to justify what is used/needed or not. Thanks, Caty
FWIW, taborder should be the following:
1. Edit input 2. Changelog input 3. Save button 4. Preview button 5. Cancel button 6. Autosave option
My $0.02. :)
Thanks, Craig
On Apr 26, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xwiki@crw.xyz <mailto:crw+xwiki@crw.xyz>> wrote:
Overall I like these changes. A couple of suggestions:
No one in my community understands “Save and Continue” versus “Save and View”. Dropping the “and Continue” is a great step, but I would go farther and give “Save and View” the emphasis color (blue, in this case). That is the more highly understood behavior. “Save” (and continue editing) is useful but not as generally useful as “Save and View”. Especially if you are dropping Preview.
FWIW, I use Preview more often from WYSIWYG mode since there is not a 1:1 translation of editor view to page view. Whereas, when I am editing source, I can predict how it will look most of the time. :)
I would also move the Cancel button over next to the other buttons. If I had to rate which buttons I use the most frequently, “Cancel” would be at the top, followed by “Save and View,” followed very very distantly by “Save and Continue."
This is very interesting behavior. I would love to be able to have some usage stats, but with XWiki being installable and independently hosted, stats are always hard to get by.
Personally I use "Save" a lot (I like to save often in order to not lose stuff), but I usually use the keyboard shortcut, not necessarily the button. It is true that 'Preview' in WYSIWYG has its usages, especially when using macros or nested macros, since the result is not accurate.
Regarding "Save & View" I always do it as a final step, while I never use "Cancel" - i just navigate away or hit the browser's 'Back'.
Also in terms of functionality the "Autosave" can be used instead of the "Save", so we can remove 'Save' (especially in case of advanced users).
So the only stats I have are from the http://playground.xwiki.org < http://playground.xwiki.org/> from the past 2 months. These are the top 3 pages edited, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/ UsageFebApr2017.png <http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/UsageFebApr2017.png>
Now let's see the heatmaps: - Sandbox.WebHome: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png> - Sandbox.TestPage1: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png> - Sandbox.Test.WebHome: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png>
From these heatmaps we see that 'Preview' has the most usage and after is "Save&View", with no usage for "Save & Continue" and "Cancel". Not we need to take into account 2 aspects: Sandbox is used by first-time users of XWiki and they usually are afraid to mess things up so the Preview is comforting for them. Also in the current layout 'Preview' is the first button from left-to-right, so it's assumed as the primary action.
So if the initial proposal was 'varA', what do you think about 'varB'? - var A [Save; Save & View]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png> - var B [Save & View; Preview]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png> - var C [Save & View; Save]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png>
Note: users that went to 'Preview', usually come back to the previous view, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-preview.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-preview.png>
I left 'Cancel' at the end, in order to be the last button and have visibility (not get lost in all the other options). Users need to use it as an 'escape' route, so it's better to find it fast and always have a static position = last. For this usually the first and last positions are best.
My initial rationale to remove 'Preview' from the WYSIWYG editor was that WYSIWYG does life preview, so I though not many users use it, since I never used it. Seeing the stats for newcomers is impressive, still it would be great if more advanced / long-term users of XWiki would summaries a bit their button usage, so we could take a more informed decision. XWiki needs to accommodate both newcomers, but also long term users.
Thanks, Caty
Nice work!
Craig
On Apr 25, 2017, at 6:21 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
We had some users complaining that the first time they edit a page they don't know how to save it. Depending on the screen resolution, the save buttons since they are at the bottom of the page are not visible and some users don't know they need to scroll in order to see them.
We want to make some changes to XWiki, that: - Display the save buttons in a fixed bottom bar, when they are out of the viewport, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBar.png - When the user scroll, the buttons go into their position, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/after.png - We compacted the bottom functionalities (summary, minor, auto-save), see before: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/before.png after: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/smallViewPort.png
What do you think about this proposal? Would it improve the visibility of the buttons? Do you have other ideas? Is it something we should implement?
Thanks, Caty
Great proposition ! I like it. I see that the subject has also diverted to the fact that you can "save and continue" and "save and view". Some of our users are lost the first time as they click "save and continue" and don't understand why they are still in edit mode. Clarifying this would indeed be a good idea, even though they usually get the distinction quickly after that. Regards, Denis 2017-04-26 17:01 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <valicac@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xwiki@crw.xyz> wrote:
Hi Caty,
I am a fan of “B”.
I like the idea of putting the changelog and autosave options above on a preceding row. I would argue that for most users, their eyes only see the leftmost buttons as the functionally useful area. Thus putting Cancel on the far right effectively “hides” the button.
Yes, the most visible buttons are the ones on the left side and that's the purpose. We need people to see the Save button :) Now, 'summary' functionality is not mandatory when editing and can also be disabled from Administration - Editing. Having it on a separate line is not an option since we initial idea of the thread is to provide a fixed bottom bar, when the viewport is small. So there are all on a single bar in order to be compact.
For the purposes of mobile, I think it is acceptable to hide the
changelog
and autosave options on small-screen resolutions. (Such as when I am editing from iPhone, I am highly unlikely to leave a changelog message anyway.)
I haven't iterated much on the mobile version, but the mockup I have is http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/mobile.png It can be improved, and as you said we could decide that on mobile we can hide some functionality, but again hard to have stats to justify what is used/needed or not.
Thanks, Caty
FWIW, taborder should be the following:
1. Edit input 2. Changelog input 3. Save button 4. Preview button 5. Cancel button 6. Autosave option
My $0.02. :)
Thanks, Craig
On Apr 26, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xwiki@crw.xyz <mailto:crw+xwiki@crw.xyz>> wrote:
Overall I like these changes. A couple of suggestions:
No one in my community understands “Save and Continue” versus “Save and View”. Dropping the “and Continue” is a great step, but I would go farther and give “Save and View” the emphasis color (blue, in this case). That is the more highly understood behavior. “Save” (and continue editing) is useful but not as generally useful as “Save and View”. Especially if you are dropping Preview.
FWIW, I use Preview more often from WYSIWYG mode since there is not a 1:1 translation of editor view to page view. Whereas, when I am editing source, I can predict how it will look most of the time. :)
I would also move the Cancel button over next to the other buttons. If I had to rate which buttons I use the most frequently, “Cancel” would be at the top, followed by “Save and View,” followed very very distantly by “Save and Continue."
This is very interesting behavior. I would love to be able to have some usage stats, but with XWiki being installable and independently hosted, stats are always hard to get by.
Personally I use "Save" a lot (I like to save often in order to not lose stuff), but I usually use the keyboard shortcut, not necessarily the button. It is true that 'Preview' in WYSIWYG has its usages, especially when using macros or nested macros, since the result is not accurate.
Regarding "Save & View" I always do it as a final step, while I never use "Cancel" - i just navigate away or hit the browser's 'Back'.
Also in terms of functionality the "Autosave" can be used instead of the "Save", so we can remove 'Save' (especially in case of advanced users).
So the only stats I have are from the http://playground.xwiki.org < http://playground.xwiki.org/> from the past 2 months. These are the top 3 pages edited, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/ UsageFebApr2017.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/UsageFebApr2017.png>
Now let's see the heatmaps: - Sandbox.WebHome: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png> - Sandbox.TestPage1: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png> - Sandbox.Test.WebHome: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png>
From these heatmaps we see that 'Preview' has the most usage and after is "Save&View", with no usage for "Save & Continue" and "Cancel". Not we need to take into account 2 aspects: Sandbox is used by first-time users of XWiki and they usually are afraid to mess things up so the Preview is comforting for them. Also in the current layout 'Preview' is the first button from left-to-right, so it's assumed as the primary action.
So if the initial proposal was 'varA', what do you think about 'varB'? - var A [Save; Save & View]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png> - var B [Save & View; Preview]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png> - var C [Save & View; Save]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png>
Note: users that went to 'Preview', usually come back to the previous view, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-preview.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-preview.png>
I left 'Cancel' at the end, in order to be the last button and have visibility (not get lost in all the other options). Users need to use it as an 'escape' route, so it's better to find it fast and always have a static position = last. For this usually the first and last positions are best.
My initial rationale to remove 'Preview' from the WYSIWYG editor was that WYSIWYG does life preview, so I though not many users use it, since I never used it. Seeing the stats for newcomers is impressive, still it would be great if more advanced / long-term users of XWiki would summaries a bit their button usage, so we could take a more informed decision. XWiki needs to accommodate both newcomers, but also long term users.
Thanks, Caty
Nice work!
Craig
On Apr 25, 2017, at 6:21 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
We had some users complaining that the first time they edit a page they don't know how to save it. Depending on the screen resolution, the save buttons since they are at the bottom of the page are not visible and some users don't know they need to scroll in order to see them.
We want to make some changes to XWiki, that: - Display the save buttons in a fixed bottom bar, when they are out of the viewport, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBar.png - When the user scroll, the buttons go into their position, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/after.png - We compacted the bottom functionalities (summary, minor, auto-save), see before: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/before.png after: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/smallViewPort.png
What do you think about this proposal? Would it improve the visibility of the buttons? Do you have other ideas? Is it something we should implement?
Thanks, Caty
I've created this form to gather data about the buttons usage, in order to make a proposal for the buttons location https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeQwjxlFl321Ap97xKlYRcf-39wlG-cJXXq... Hope everyone is comfortable with Google Forms. Thanks, Caty On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Denis GERMAIN <dt.germain@gmail.com> wrote:
Great proposition ! I like it.
I see that the subject has also diverted to the fact that you can "save and continue" and "save and view". Some of our users are lost the first time as they click "save and continue" and don't understand why they are still in edit mode. Clarifying this would indeed be a good idea, even though they usually get the distinction quickly after that.
Regards, Denis
2017-04-26 17:01 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <valicac@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xwiki@crw.xyz> wrote:
Hi Caty,
I am a fan of “B”.
I like the idea of putting the changelog and autosave options above on a preceding row. I would argue that for most users, their eyes only see the leftmost buttons as the functionally useful area. Thus putting Cancel on the far right effectively “hides” the button.
Yes, the most visible buttons are the ones on the left side and that's the purpose. We need people to see the Save button :) Now, 'summary' functionality is not mandatory when editing and can also be disabled from Administration - Editing. Having it on a separate line is not an option since we initial idea of the thread is to provide a fixed bottom bar, when the viewport is small. So there are all on a single bar in order to be compact.
For the purposes of mobile, I think it is acceptable to hide the
changelog
and autosave options on small-screen resolutions. (Such as when I am editing from iPhone, I am highly unlikely to leave a changelog message anyway.)
I haven't iterated much on the mobile version, but the mockup I have is http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/mobile.png It can be improved, and as you said we could decide that on mobile we can hide some functionality, but again hard to have stats to justify what is used/needed or not.
Thanks, Caty
FWIW, taborder should be the following:
1. Edit input 2. Changelog input 3. Save button 4. Preview button 5. Cancel button 6. Autosave option
My $0.02. :)
Thanks, Craig
On Apr 26, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xwiki@crw.xyz <mailto:crw+xwiki@crw.xyz>> wrote:
Overall I like these changes. A couple of suggestions:
No one in my community understands “Save and Continue” versus “Save and View”. Dropping the “and Continue” is a great step, but I would go farther and give “Save and View” the emphasis color (blue, in this case). That is the more highly understood behavior. “Save” (and continue editing) is useful but not as generally useful as “Save and View”. Especially if you are dropping Preview.
FWIW, I use Preview more often from WYSIWYG mode since there is not a 1:1 translation of editor view to page view. Whereas, when I am editing source, I can predict how it will look most of the time. :)
I would also move the Cancel button over next to the other buttons. If I had to rate which buttons I use the most frequently, “Cancel” would be at the top, followed by “Save and View,” followed very very distantly by “Save and Continue."
This is very interesting behavior. I would love to be able to have some usage stats, but with XWiki being installable and independently hosted, stats are always hard to get by.
Personally I use "Save" a lot (I like to save often in order to not lose stuff), but I usually use the keyboard shortcut, not necessarily the button. It is true that 'Preview' in WYSIWYG has its usages, especially when using macros or nested macros, since the result is not accurate.
Regarding "Save & View" I always do it as a final step, while I never use "Cancel" - i just navigate away or hit the browser's 'Back'.
Also in terms of functionality the "Autosave" can be used instead of the "Save", so we can remove 'Save' (especially in case of advanced users).
So the only stats I have are from the http://playground.xwiki.org < http://playground.xwiki.org/> from the past 2 months. These are the top 3 pages edited, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/ UsageFebApr2017.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/UsageFebApr2017.png>
Now let's see the heatmaps: - Sandbox.WebHome: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png> - Sandbox.TestPage1: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png> - Sandbox.Test.WebHome: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png>
From these heatmaps we see that 'Preview' has the most usage and after is "Save&View", with no usage for "Save & Continue" and "Cancel". Not we need to take into account 2 aspects: Sandbox is used by first-time users of XWiki and they usually are afraid to mess things up so the Preview is comforting for them. Also in the current layout 'Preview' is the first button from left-to-right, so it's assumed as the primary action.
So if the initial proposal was 'varA', what do you think about 'varB'? - var A [Save; Save & View]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png> - var B [Save & View; Preview]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png> - var C [Save & View; Save]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png>
Note: users that went to 'Preview', usually come back to the previous view, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-preview.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-preview.png>
I left 'Cancel' at the end, in order to be the last button and have visibility (not get lost in all the other options). Users need to use it as an 'escape' route, so it's better to find it fast and always have a static position = last. For this usually the first and last positions are best.
My initial rationale to remove 'Preview' from the WYSIWYG editor was that WYSIWYG does life preview, so I though not many users use it, since I never used it. Seeing the stats for newcomers is impressive, still it would be great if more advanced / long-term users of XWiki would summaries a bit their button usage, so we could take a more informed decision. XWiki needs to accommodate both newcomers, but also long term users.
Thanks, Caty
Nice work!
Craig
On Apr 25, 2017, at 6:21 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
We had some users complaining that the first time they edit a page they don't know how to save it. Depending on the screen resolution, the save buttons since they are at the bottom of the page are not visible and some users don't know they need to scroll in order to see them.
We want to make some changes to XWiki, that: - Display the save buttons in a fixed bottom bar, when they are out of the viewport, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBar.png - When the user scroll, the buttons go into their position, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/after.png - We compacted the bottom functionalities (summary, minor, auto-save), see before: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/before.png after: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/smallViewPort.png
What do you think about this proposal? Would it improve the visibility of the buttons? Do you have other ideas? Is it something we should implement?
Thanks, Caty
Sorry. The link was https://goo.gl/forms/QyG5eOM44rBkd3qk2 On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
I've created this form to gather data about the buttons usage, in order to make a proposal for the buttons location https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeQwjxlFl321Ap97xKlYRcf -39wlG-cJXXqM1nududfjo3KHQ/viewanalytics
Hope everyone is comfortable with Google Forms. Thanks, Caty
On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Denis GERMAIN <dt.germain@gmail.com> wrote:
Great proposition ! I like it.
I see that the subject has also diverted to the fact that you can "save and continue" and "save and view". Some of our users are lost the first time as they click "save and continue" and don't understand why they are still in edit mode. Clarifying this would indeed be a good idea, even though they usually get the distinction quickly after that.
Regards, Denis
2017-04-26 17:01 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <valicac@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xwiki@crw.xyz> wrote:
Hi Caty,
I am a fan of “B”.
I like the idea of putting the changelog and autosave options above on a preceding row. I would argue that for most users, their eyes only see the leftmost buttons as the functionally useful area. Thus putting Cancel on the far right effectively “hides” the button.
Yes, the most visible buttons are the ones on the left side and that's the purpose. We need people to see the Save button :) Now, 'summary' functionality is not mandatory when editing and can also be disabled from Administration - Editing. Having it on a separate line is not an option since we initial idea of the thread is to provide a fixed bottom bar, when the viewport is small. So there are all on a single bar in order to be compact.
For the purposes of mobile, I think it is acceptable to hide the
changelog
and autosave options on small-screen resolutions. (Such as when I am editing from iPhone, I am highly unlikely to leave a changelog message anyway.)
I haven't iterated much on the mobile version, but the mockup I have is http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/mobile.png It can be improved, and as you said we could decide that on mobile we can hide some functionality, but again hard to have stats to justify what is used/needed or not.
Thanks, Caty
FWIW, taborder should be the following:
1. Edit input 2. Changelog input 3. Save button 4. Preview button 5. Cancel button 6. Autosave option
My $0.02. :)
Thanks, Craig
On Apr 26, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xwiki@crw.xyz <mailto:crw+xwiki@crw.xyz>> wrote:
Overall I like these changes. A couple of suggestions:
No one in my community understands “Save and Continue” versus “Save and View”. Dropping the “and Continue” is a great step, but I would go farther and give “Save and View” the emphasis color (blue, in this case). That is the more highly understood behavior. “Save” (and continue editing) is useful but not as generally useful as “Save and View”. Especially if you are dropping Preview.
FWIW, I use Preview more often from WYSIWYG mode since there is not a 1:1 translation of editor view to page view. Whereas, when I am editing source, I can predict how it will look most of the time. :)
I would also move the Cancel button over next to the other buttons. If I had to rate which buttons I use the most frequently, “Cancel” would be at the top, followed by “Save and View,” followed very very distantly by “Save and Continue."
This is very interesting behavior. I would love to be able to have some usage stats, but with XWiki being installable and independently hosted, stats are always hard to get by.
Personally I use "Save" a lot (I like to save often in order to not lose stuff), but I usually use the keyboard shortcut, not necessarily the button. It is true that 'Preview' in WYSIWYG has its usages, especially when using macros or nested macros, since the result is not accurate.
Regarding "Save & View" I always do it as a final step, while I never use "Cancel" - i just navigate away or hit the browser's 'Back'.
Also in terms of functionality the "Autosave" can be used instead of the "Save", so we can remove 'Save' (especially in case of advanced users).
So the only stats I have are from the http://playground.xwiki.org < http://playground.xwiki.org/> from the past 2 months. These are the top 3 pages edited, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisi bleSave/ UsageFebApr2017.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/UsageFebApr2017.png>
Now let's see the heatmaps: - Sandbox.WebHome: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png> - Sandbox.TestPage1: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png> - Sandbox.Test.WebHome: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png>
From these heatmaps we see that 'Preview' has the most usage and after is "Save&View", with no usage for "Save & Continue" and "Cancel". Not we need to take into account 2 aspects: Sandbox is used by first-time users of XWiki and they usually are afraid to mess things up so the Preview is comforting for them. Also in the current layout 'Preview' is the first button from left-to-right, so it's assumed as the primary action.
So if the initial proposal was 'varA', what do you think about 'varB'? - var A [Save; Save & View]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png> - var B [Save & View; Preview]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png> - var C [Save & View; Save]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png>
Note: users that went to 'Preview', usually come back to the previous view, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-preview.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-preview.png>
I left 'Cancel' at the end, in order to be the last button and have visibility (not get lost in all the other options). Users need to use it as an 'escape' route, so it's better to find it fast and always have a static position = last. For this usually the first and last positions are best.
My initial rationale to remove 'Preview' from the WYSIWYG editor was that WYSIWYG does life preview, so I though not many users use it, since I never used it. Seeing the stats for newcomers is impressive, still it would be great if more advanced / long-term users of XWiki would summaries a bit their button usage, so we could take a more informed decision. XWiki needs to accommodate both newcomers, but also long term users.
Thanks, Caty
Nice work!
Craig
> On Apr 25, 2017, at 6:21 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > We had some users complaining that the first time they edit a page they > don't know how to save it. Depending on the screen resolution, the save > buttons since they are at the bottom of the page are not visible and some > users don't know they need to scroll in order to see them. > > We want to make some changes to XWiki, that: > - Display the save buttons in a fixed bottom bar, when they are out of the > viewport, see > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBar.png > - When the user scroll, the buttons go into their position, see > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/after.png > - We compacted the bottom functionalities (summary, minor, auto-save), see > before: > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/before.png > after: > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/smallViewPort.png > > What do you think about this proposal? Would it improve the visibility of > the buttons? Do you have other ideas? Is it something we should implement? > > Thanks, > Caty
Hi, The initial proposal was about the fixed bottom position. For that we will have https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14162 issue In order to have a bottom bar, we compacted the save options, for that we will have the https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14267 Thanks to everyone who responded in the survey. The results are available at https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1DM74hlXQQ22WVdqhYbGWyITWXTH5qgmKSMIrS3eHDKE... The proposal we will implement is http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/proposal... Initially I wanted to remove some buttons and reduce their number, but the feedback was mixed, so this has been postponed, until we gather more usage data or feedback. Some conclusions: - "Save & View" received 12 votes as used most often. Since it's also an action that changes modes (takes the user to view) and is a final action, it will be marked with primary state (blue). - "Save" was also voted and voters were against remove it. Since it received 12 votes and is related to save, it will be the next action. We simplified the name from "Save&Continue" to "Save". - "Preview" received just 4 votes, but we consider this action to be directed towards newcomer users that need to be comfortable with their changes and be able to preview them. - "Cancel" was kept near the other actions in order to be consistent with the other layout we have across XWiki. It will be displayed outside of the button group. Thanks, Caty On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry. The link was https://goo.gl/forms/QyG5eOM44rBkd3qk2
On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
I've created this form to gather data about the buttons usage, in order to make a proposal for the buttons location https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeQwjxlFl321Ap97xKlYRcf-39wlG- cJXXqM1nududfjo3KHQ/viewanalytics
Hope everyone is comfortable with Google Forms. Thanks, Caty
On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Denis GERMAIN <dt.germain@gmail.com> wrote:
Great proposition ! I like it.
I see that the subject has also diverted to the fact that you can "save and continue" and "save and view". Some of our users are lost the first time as they click "save and continue" and don't understand why they are still in edit mode. Clarifying this would indeed be a good idea, even though they usually get the distinction quickly after that.
Regards, Denis
2017-04-26 17:01 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <valicac@gmail.com
:
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xwiki@crw.xyz> wrote:
Hi Caty,
I am a fan of “B”.
I like the idea of putting the changelog and autosave options above on a preceding row. I would argue that for most users, their eyes only see the leftmost buttons as the functionally useful area. Thus putting Cancel on the far right effectively “hides” the button.
Yes, the most visible buttons are the ones on the left side and that's the purpose. We need people to see the Save button :) Now, 'summary' functionality is not mandatory when editing and can also be disabled from Administration - Editing. Having it on a separate line is not an option since we initial idea of the thread is to provide a fixed bottom bar, when the viewport is small. So there are all on a single bar in order to be compact.
For the purposes of mobile, I think it is acceptable to hide the
changelog
and autosave options on small-screen resolutions. (Such as when I am editing from iPhone, I am highly unlikely to leave a changelog message anyway.)
I haven't iterated much on the mobile version, but the mockup I have is http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/mobile.png It can be improved, and as you said we could decide that on mobile we can hide some functionality, but again hard to have stats to justify what is used/needed or not.
Thanks, Caty
FWIW, taborder should be the following:
1. Edit input 2. Changelog input 3. Save button 4. Preview button 5. Cancel button 6. Autosave option
My $0.02. :)
Thanks, Craig
On Apr 26, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < valicac@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Craig Wright <crw+xwiki@crw.xyz <mailto:crw+xwiki@crw.xyz>> wrote:
> Overall I like these changes. A couple of suggestions: > > No one in my community understands “Save and Continue” versus “Save and > View”. Dropping the “and Continue” is a great step, but I would go farther > and give “Save and View” the emphasis color (blue, in this case). That is > the more highly understood behavior. “Save” (and continue editing) is > useful but not as generally useful as “Save and View”. Especially if you > are dropping Preview. > > FWIW, I use Preview more often from WYSIWYG mode since there is not a 1:1 > translation of editor view to page view. Whereas, when I am editing source, > I can predict how it will look most of the time. :) > > I would also move the Cancel button over next to the other buttons. If I > had to rate which buttons I use the most frequently, “Cancel” would be at > the top, followed by “Save and View,” followed very very distantly by “Save > and Continue." > > This is very interesting behavior. I would love to be able to have some usage stats, but with XWiki being installable and independently hosted, stats are always hard to get by.
Personally I use "Save" a lot (I like to save often in order to not lose stuff), but I usually use the keyboard shortcut, not necessarily the button. It is true that 'Preview' in WYSIWYG has its usages, especially when using macros or nested macros, since the result is not accurate.
Regarding "Save & View" I always do it as a final step, while I never use "Cancel" - i just navigate away or hit the browser's 'Back'.
Also in terms of functionality the "Autosave" can be used instead of the "Save", so we can remove 'Save' (especially in case of advanced users).
So the only stats I have are from the http://playground.xwiki.org < http://playground.xwiki.org/> from the past 2 months. These are the top 3 pages edited, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisi bleSave/ UsageFebApr2017.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/UsageFebApr2017.png>
Now let's see the heatmaps: - Sandbox.WebHome: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Home.png> - Sandbox.TestPage1: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-TestPage1.png> - Sandbox.Test.WebHome: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test.png>
From these heatmaps we see that 'Preview' has the most usage and after is "Save&View", with no usage for "Save & Continue" and "Cancel". Not we need to take into account 2 aspects: Sandbox is used by first-time users of XWiki and they usually are afraid to mess things up so the Preview is comforting for them. Also in the current layout 'Preview' is the first button from left-to-right, so it's assumed as the primary action.
So if the initial proposal was 'varA', what do you think about 'varB'? - var A [Save; Save & View]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varA.png> - var B [Save & View; Preview]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varB.png> - var C [Save & View; Save]: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/varC.png>
Note: users that went to 'Preview', usually come back to the previous view, see http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-preview.png <http://design.xwiki.org/ xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaVisibleSave/Sandbox-Test-pre view.png>
I left 'Cancel' at the end, in order to be the last button and have visibility (not get lost in all the other options). Users need to use it as an 'escape' route, so it's better to find it fast and always have a static position = last. For this usually the first and last positions are best.
My initial rationale to remove 'Preview' from the WYSIWYG editor was that WYSIWYG does life preview, so I though not many users use it, since I never used it. Seeing the stats for newcomers is impressive, still it would be great if more advanced / long-term users of XWiki would summaries a bit their button usage, so we could take a more informed decision. XWiki needs to accommodate both newcomers, but also long term users.
Thanks, Caty
> Nice work! > > Craig > > >> On Apr 25, 2017, at 6:21 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > valicac@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> We had some users complaining that the first time they edit a page they >> don't know how to save it. Depending on the screen resolution, the save >> buttons since they are at the bottom of the page are not visible and some >> users don't know they need to scroll in order to see them. >> >> We want to make some changes to XWiki, that: >> - Display the save buttons in a fixed bottom bar, when they are out of > the >> viewport, see >> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > IdeaVisibleSave/bottomBar.png >> - When the user scroll, the buttons go into their position, see >> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > IdeaVisibleSave/after.png >> - We compacted the bottom functionalities (summary, minor, auto-save), > see >> before: >> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > IdeaVisibleSave/before.png >> after: >> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/ > IdeaVisibleSave/smallViewPort.png >> >> What do you think about this proposal? Would it improve the visibility of >> the buttons? Do you have other ideas? Is it something we should > implement? >> >> Thanks, >> Caty
participants (5)
-
Craig Wright -
Denis GERMAIN -
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) -
Mahomed Hussein -
Olivier Seres