[xwiki-users] disabling xwiki 1.0 markup ?
i have a brand new XWiki 4.1 install I don't have any xwiki 1.0 documents So i put this configuration: xwiki.rendering.syntaxes = xwiki/2.1, creole/1.0, html/4.01 When i edit the page,., it offer me those formats PLUS xwiki/1.0 Why ? How can i really disable it ? --- I thought that XWiki is largely markup-agniostic... Is GUI editor really uncapable of creole markup ? -- View this message in context: http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/disabling-xwiki-1-0-markup-tp7579990.html Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi Arioch, On Jun 29, 2012, at 2:42 PM, Arioch wrote:
i have a brand new XWiki 4.1 install I don't have any xwiki 1.0 documents
So i put this configuration:
xwiki.rendering.syntaxes = xwiki/2.1, creole/1.0, html/4.01
When i edit the page,., it offer me those formats PLUS xwiki/1.0
Why ? How can i really disable it ?
yeah, we force xwiki/1.0 ATM. You could try editing Panels.DocumentInformation and remove the line dealing with xwiki/1.0 It would be nice if you could open an issue for this on http://jira.xwiki.org
I thought that XWiki is largely markup-agniostic…
it is, at the level of the markup and rendering...
Is GUI editor really uncapable of creole markup ?
yes it's not supported because it would need to have a Creole Renderer written whereas right now we have a Creole Parser only. The reason is that the WYSIWYG needs to perform the following: * Read wiki markup and generate HTML (supported) * You modify the HTML (supported) * Transform the HTML into markup again (not supported) So Right now we written Renderers only for a few syntaxes, namely: XWiki Syntax 2.0/2.1 and XHTML/HTML. The other limitation is that the WYISWYG editor has capabilities built in (like ability to style selected content in certain ways) but the underlying markup may not support it. For example creole may not support styling a portion of text with some CSS styles. So what we would need in the future if we really want to support multiple syntax in the WYSIWYG editor is also to add a notion of Markup Capabilities and disable features in the WYSIWYG based on that... Hope it makes it clear! -Vincent
On 06/29/2012 08:51 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
Hi Arioch,
On Jun 29, 2012, at 2:42 PM, Arioch wrote:
i have a brand new XWiki 4.1 install I don't have any xwiki 1.0 documents
So i put this configuration:
xwiki.rendering.syntaxes = xwiki/2.1, creole/1.0, html/4.01
When i edit the page,., it offer me those formats PLUS xwiki/1.0
Why ? How can i really disable it ?
yeah, we force xwiki/1.0 ATM. You could try editing Panels.DocumentInformation and remove the line dealing with xwiki/1.0
It would be nice if you could open an issue for this on http://jira.xwiki.org
I thought that XWiki is largely markup-agniostic…
it is, at the level of the markup and rendering...
Is GUI editor really uncapable of creole markup ?
yes it's not supported because it would need to have a Creole Renderer written whereas right now we have a Creole Parser only.
The reason is that the WYSIWYG needs to perform the following: * Read wiki markup and generate HTML (supported) * You modify the HTML (supported) * Transform the HTML into markup again (not supported)
So Right now we written Renderers only for a few syntaxes, namely: XWiki Syntax 2.0/2.1 and XHTML/HTML.
Still, writing a renderer is not very hard, and we'd welcome patches for any new output syntax.
The other limitation is that the WYISWYG editor has capabilities built in (like ability to style selected content in certain ways) but the underlying markup may not support it. For example creole may not support styling a portion of text with some CSS styles. So what we would need in the future if we really want to support multiple syntax in the WYSIWYG editor is also to add a notion of Markup Capabilities and disable features in the WYSIWYG based on that...
Hope it makes it clear!
-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
we'd welcome patches
Oooh, as of now i'm overly busy Delphist and would remain such for a year and too. So i only hope i would find here and there Javists to fix my issues :-) BTW, since you have russian localisation i though you have no problems locale-wise. But to me OpenOffice integration and RTF import are completely broken... Pity it seems here marginal low priority function, looking as no one speaks in OOO thread and this thread was answered so fast. -- View this message in context: http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/disabling-xwiki-1-0-markup-tp7579990p75800... Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
we have a Creole Parser only.
How's that ? I can create a page in XWiki and then switch it to Creole. Doesn't it mean you have both creole Parser and Creole Generator ? (or u call Generator by Renderer ? for i see "Rendered" word like some unit that pictures the data to screen or to paper)
Transform the HTML into markup again (not supported)
Chain them ? HTML -> XWiki 2.1 -> Creole 1.0
portion of text with some CSS styles
to me it sounds okay for documentation generation engine, but not for wiki i think it would depend upon direction your would choose for your evolution If documentation - then LESS/CSS is okay, but then you would need functions like exproting sertain section with all its sub-pages (or selected few pages) into one merged PDF/RTF/whatever. .... Jira... oh, no. that thing that completely fails with Opera... poor me :-))) -- View this message in context: http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/disabling-xwiki-1-0-markup-tp7579990p75800... Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Jun 29, 2012, at 4:44 PM, Arioch wrote:
we have a Creole Parser only.
How's that ? I can create a page in XWiki and then switch it to Creole.
No you cannot do that :) That would require a Creole renderer which we don't have. Said differently if you write in XWiki Syntax and then switch to Creole the content won't be changed. It just happens that XWiki Syntax is a superset of the Creole syntax so yo may think it works… ;)
Doesn't it mean you have both creole Parser and Creole Generator ?
We only have a parser.
(or u call Generator by Renderer ? for i see "Rendered" word like some unit that pictures the data to screen or to paper)
Transform the HTML into markup again (not supported)
Chain them ? HTML -> XWiki 2.1 -> Creole 1.0
Converting from XWiki 2.1 to Creole 1.0 would require a Creole Renderer…
portion of text with some CSS styles
to me it sounds okay for documentation generation engine, but not for wiki i think it would depend upon direction your would choose for your evolution
Sorry but I'm not sure I understand what you mean here.
If documentation - then LESS/CSS is okay, but then you would need functions like exproting sertain section with all its sub-pages (or selected few pages) into one merged PDF/RTF/whatever.
....
Jira... oh, no. that thing that completely fails with Opera... poor me :-)))
Thanks -Vincent
XWiki Syntax is a superset of the Creole syntax so yo may think it works
So even if i would use that superset, it would not halt conversion, but would rather damage markup (turn markup into regular text) ? I think if such, that conversion should be prohibited by engine
Sorry but I'm not sure I understand what you mean here.
The goals and expected features are different for different applications. To me wiki is for quick and easy dropping and exchanging the notes. Fancy style is secondary. Fancy unique styles for different paragraphs is even not a minor feature but rather a way to make noise more than signal. Particularly - there is no place for custom CSS for it was not designed for average human to easily change. I would not say about errors(or intended harm) like white text on white background. Wiki is not HTML and for that very reason Wiki is not CSS. If the goal is to make cute-looking web application or system to make easy editable cute looking user help, then full support for HTML/CSS is very good to have. I'd even better supported LESS than pure CSS. But then Wiki features would be limited. You just cannot edit wiki-style all that visual stuff. You can never hope to get in Creole all the visual power of CSS3. I think wiki interoperability and visual richness for applications are diverging trends and they ultimately would be mutually exclusive. -- View this message in context: http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/disabling-xwiki-1-0-markup-tp7579990p75800... Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Jun 29, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Arioch wrote:
XWiki Syntax is a superset of the Creole syntax so yo may think it works
So even if i would use that superset, it would not halt conversion, but would rather damage markup (turn markup into regular text) ?
I think if such, that conversion should be prohibited by engine
There's NO conversion.
Sorry but I'm not sure I understand what you mean here.
The goals and expected features are different for different applications. To me wiki is for quick and easy dropping and exchanging the notes. Fancy style is secondary. Fancy unique styles for different paragraphs is even not a minor feature but rather a way to make noise more than signal. Particularly - there is no place for custom CSS for it was not designed for average human to easily change. I would not say about errors(or intended harm) like white text on white background. Wiki is not HTML and for that very reason Wiki is not CSS.
Why are you talking about styles? I just gave that as an example but there are plenty of other examples we can take. for example not all wiki markups support interwiki links, or even mixing bulleted and numbered list, etc.
If the goal is to make cute-looking web application or system to make easy editable cute looking user help, then full support for HTML/CSS is very good to have. I'd even better supported LESS than pure CSS. But then Wiki features would be limited. You just cannot edit wiki-style all that visual stuff. You can never hope to get in Creole all the visual power of CSS3.
I think wiki interoperability and visual richness for applications are diverging trends and they ultimately would be mutually exclusive.
You have 2 choices: * Go the Confluence way and drop wiki markup as they've just done * Go the XWiki way and have a wiki markup expressive enough so that it still fullfils its role of being quick to add data and also support most if not all what HTML supports We chose the second one. But again, that's not a problem, the main problem is that there's no Creole Renderer written so you cannot convert to Creole syntax in XWiki ATM. Thanks -Vincent
XWiki Syntax is a superset of the Creole syntax so yo may think it works So even if i would use that superset, it would not halt conversion, but would rather damage markup (turn markup into regular text) ?
I think if such, that conversion should be prohibited by engine There's NO conversion.
Okay, not the conversion, but the switch of formats -- View this message in context: http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/disabling-xwiki-1-0-markup-tp7579990p75800... Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Jul 2, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Arioch wrote:
XWiki Syntax is a superset of the Creole syntax so yo may think it works So even if i would use that superset, it would not halt conversion, but would rather damage markup (turn markup into regular text) ?
I think if such, that conversion should be prohibited by engine There's NO conversion.
Okay, not the conversion, but the switch of formats
Why do you think we should disallow a user from switching format? If your worry is that the user doesn't realize his content hasn't been converted, we could easily add a popup explaining this when there are no renderer for the target format. Thanks -Vincent
like that, yes. it's akin for double conversion he makes rich xwiki-syntaxed page, changes to creole (some markup is no just text), founds GUI editor dysfunctional, switches back to xwiki (escaping text which matches markup sequences) and - here he is. I think if there is something you can not stick into creole, then switch should better not be permitted. Let user simplify the page 1st. -- View this message in context: http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/disabling-xwiki-1-0-markup-tp7579990p75800... Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Jul 2, 2012, at 12:29 PM, Arioch wrote:
like that, yes. it's akin for double conversion
he makes rich xwiki-syntaxed page, changes to creole (some markup is no just text), founds GUI editor dysfunctional, switches back to xwiki (escaping text which matches markup sequences) and - here he is.
I think if there is something you can not stick into creole, then switch should better not be permitted. Let user simplify the page 1st.
The best would be for you to create a jira issue at http://jira.xwiki.org about it so that it's not forgotten and slated for implementation. Thanks -Vincent
participants (3)
-
Arioch -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
Vincent Massol