On 06/30/2010 01:15 PM, Ponder Muse wrote:

Hi,

I am interested in trying out xwiki concerto but I am unable to download the installer jar from its website at http://concerto.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/DownloadAndInstall.

Does anybody know what is the current state of the xwiki concerto project?

I understand that xwiki concerto was a research project that ran until sometime in 2008 and I am interested in knowing what progress there's been on it since then (if any). i.e. does the main xwiki project now maybe include support for replication of xwiki content in a distributed environment?

Any insight on this would be much appreciated!

The sources are available at https://svn.xwiki.org/svnroot/xwiki/contrib/sandbox/concerto/ , a plain mvn install should give you a ready-to-use file in concerto-installer/target. There are no official releases of the project yet, so you'll have to build it manually. As for the state of the project, it has been mostly abandoned in a "successful" state. The goals of the project have been met, but the final result didn't prove to be ready for prime-time usage, and the promises, which sounded promising in 2007 when the project started (actually 2005 was the real start of the P2P wiki work, outside Concerto, as a Google Summer of Code project), by the time the project ended interest shifted to other domains, such as cloud computing, distributed caches, distributed databases, offline web storage (Google Gears, now part of the HTML5 family of specifications), Wave. Thus, IMO there's no real incentive to further push the P2P ideas. There hasn't been any real work in these new directions. We do have distributed caches, which allows to setup parallel servers, which offers better scalability, and this is ready to be used. There has been an initial proof-of-concept deployment as a cloud application, when Google first announced support for Java, which proved to be successful, but it wasn't expanded into a real feature so far (coming soon). So, I'd say that if you want a distributed environment, you should look into distributed caches/events, ask for further help on this mailing list. -- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/

Actually this is not so easy because the artifacts needed for the compilation are not anymore in the maven repository, so you will also have to recompile XWiki artifacts by retrieving the required versions using tags in the SVN repository. The version we targeted, if I am not wrong, was XWiki 1.8.1

Yes, I've realised it is a bit of a mission just trying to get a binary build of concerto to try out... For the rest, I mostly agree with what Sergiu said.

I still believe in P2P which is really a paradigm shift from time-sharing and a better way for keeping the control of his data, but business-wise it's not where the world is going right now, hence the lack of real interest in those solutions.

Agreed. I should mention here that the network environment in which I need to test out wiki capabilities breaks out somewhat from the direction the world is going right now! And think that concerto would suffice as proof of wiki capabilities within this network environment.

P.S.: I might check if I can retrieve an pre-compiled installer from my backups but I doubt I will be able to. It would be more interesting to try to rebuild it using XWiki 1.8.1 or, better, update the pom.xml's in order to target the latest XWiki distribution. I am pretty confident that things will work even with more recent versions of XWiki because the functionalities required by Concerto didn't change since then.

If you do stumble across your ready compiled installer, could you possibly post it here or e-mail to me so that I can try it out? Thanks again peeps for your inputs on this thread! Reagards, PM.

Hi, I have fixed the build issues and now Concerto should be building without problems. Please make sure to follow the steps described at http://concerto.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Tutorial On the other hand, if you can wait a couple of hours, I am sure I will find a place to host the 80mb jar installer build of Concerto that I remade and fix the link available at http://concerto.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/DownloadAndInstall Please check the page for updates in about 12 hours. Thank you for your interest in Concerto and I would greatly appreciate your feedback on it, even though the development on this project is currently suspended. P.S.: Please keep in mind that, as Sergiu stated, even though the project ended successfully, the prototype is not ready for production. I checked it, and it's running decently with the bundled XWiki Enterprise 1.8.1, but you should not use it for sensitive information. Thanks, Eduard On 07/02/2010 01:27 PM, Ponder Muse wrote:

...

Actually this is not so easy because the artifacts needed for the compilation are not anymore in the maven repository, so you will also have to recompile XWiki artifacts by retrieving the required versions using tags in the SVN repository. The version we targeted, if I am not wrong, was XWiki 1.8.1

Yes, I've realised it is a bit of a mission just trying to get a binary build of concerto to try out...

For the rest, I mostly agree with what Sergiu said.

...

I still believe in P2P which is really a paradigm shift from time-sharing and a better way for keeping the control of his data, but business-wise it's not where the world is going right now, hence the lack of real interest in those solutions.

Agreed. I should mention here that the network environment in which I need to test out wiki capabilities breaks out somewhat from the direction the world is going right now! And think that concerto would suffice as proof of wiki capabilities within this network environment.

...

P.S.: I might check if I can retrieve an pre-compiled installer from my backups but I doubt I will be able to. It would be more interesting to try to rebuild it using XWiki 1.8.1 or, better, update the pom.xml's in order to target the latest XWiki distribution. I am pretty confident that things will work even with more recent versions of XWiki because the functionalities required by Concerto didn't change since then.

If you do stumble across your ready compiled installer, could you possibly post it here or e-mail to me so that I can try it out?

Thanks again peeps for your inputs on this thread!

Reagards, PM. _______________________________________________ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users

Just jumping in here, as I have to ask this: is there any Possilibity to Use XWiki Offline apart from Concerto? I consider this a crucial feature for a lot of enterprise where employees have to work outside or have no internet in meetings. Btw, I thing something like XEclipse with Page preview would suffice. thank ! -------- Original-Nachricht --------

Datum: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:06:41 +0100 Von: Ponder Muse <ponder.muse@googlemail.com> An: XWiki Users <users@xwiki.org> Betreff: Re: [xwiki-users] state of xwiki concerto

Hi Eduard,

...

I have fixed the build issues and now Concerto should be building without problems.

Please make sure to follow the steps described at http://concerto.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Tutorial

Thanks for your efforts in making Concerto available again.

...

On the other hand, if you can wait a couple of hours, I am sure I will find a place to host the 80mb jar installer build of Concerto that I remade and fix the link available at http://concerto.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/DownloadAndInstall Please check the page for updates in about 12 hours.

I will give the built installer a go once its available at the above link.

Thank you for your interest in Concerto and I would greatly appreciate

...

your feedback on it, even though the development on this project is currently suspended.

Sure thing, I'll do that.

P.S.: Please keep in mind that, as Sergiu stated, even though the

...

project ended successfully, the prototype is not ready for production. I checked it, and it's running decently with the bundled XWiki Enterprise 1.8.1, but you should not use it for sensitive information.

No worries with it being just a prototype as we will trial it in a controlled lab environment only.

Thanks again for your efforts - much appreciated!

Regards, PM. _______________________________________________ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users

-- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

Thanks for the reply Eduard, However, both options don't seem to be what is most useful. A third option would be to have an xwiki installation on the pc running on a MySQL replication Database, and synchronize the Database every time you get a connection. This sounds kind of like Concerto also sharing the Advantages and the Disadvanges However, some mid way would be nice in future (the sooner the better) simple rendering and maybe search in XEclipse would be great. Regards -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: users-bounces@xwiki.org [mailto:users-bounces@xwiki.org] Im Auftrag von Eduard Moraru Gesendet: Dienstag, 6. Juli 2010 16:46 An: users@xwiki.org Betreff: Re: [xwiki-users] state of xwiki concerto Hi, On 07/06/2010 04:07 PM, Thomas Hoeschele wrote:

Just jumping in here, as I have to ask this: is there any Possilibity to Use XWiki Offline apart from Concerto? I consider this a crucial feature for a lot of enterprise where employees have to work outside or have no internet in meetings.

Btw, I thing something like XEclipse with Page preview would suffice.

thank !

Well, XEclipse was originally part of the XWiki Concerto research project as well. AFAIK, there is currently no XWiki Offline standalone project. So there are basically 2 options for offline work with xwiki: Concerto and XEclipse. - Concerto involves having a local (in offline work context) xwiki installation that replicates completely or partially a remote xwiki. - Advantage: full featured XWiki experience. - Dissadvantage: big footprint, possibly instable due to current status. - XEclipse involves downloading a set of pages (or entire spaces) and working in an Eclipse environment. - Advantage: light, syntax highlighting, suggestions, etc. - Disadvantage: only wiki syntax mode is supported and partial rendering (since you don't have the wiki's entire contents with you). Both options synchronize with remote XWiki when internet is available. Hope this helps. Thanks, Eduard

-------- Original-Nachricht --------

...

Datum: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:06:41 +0100 Von: Ponder Muse<ponder.muse@googlemail.com> An: XWiki Users<users@xwiki.org> Betreff: Re: [xwiki-users] state of xwiki concerto

...

Hi Eduard,

...

I have fixed the build issues and now Concerto should be building without problems.

Please make sure to follow the steps described at http://concerto.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Tutorial

Thanks for your efforts in making Concerto available again.

...

On the other hand, if you can wait a couple of hours, I am sure I will find a place to host the 80mb jar installer build of Concerto that I remade and fix the link available at http://concerto.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/DownloadAndInstall Please check the page for updates in about 12 hours.

I will give the built installer a go once its available at the above link.

Thank you for your interest in Concerto and I would greatly appreciate

...

your feedback on it, even though the development on this project is currently suspended.

Sure thing, I'll do that.

P.S.: Please keep in mind that, as Sergiu stated, even though the

...

project ended successfully, the prototype is not ready for production. I checked it, and it's running decently with the bundled XWiki Enterprise 1.8.1, but you should not use it for sensitive information.

No worries with it being just a prototype as we will trial it in a controlled lab environment only.

Thanks again for your efforts - much appreciated!

Regards, PM. _______________________________________________ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users

_______________________________________________ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users

Le 06/07/10 17:58, Eduard Moraru a écrit :

Hi,

On 07/06/2010 05:57 PM, Thomas Höschele wrote:

...

Thanks for the reply Eduard,

However, both options don't seem to be what is most useful.

A third option would be to have an xwiki installation on the pc running on a MySQL replication Database, and synchronize the Database every time you get a connection.

Well, yes. That's pretty much Sergiu's argument as well.

Well this is not really enough, as this locks you in read-only mode. Concerto was meant to provide offline, but you need some additional code and storage on both the server and the client to run the replication model. The replication model is what guarantees solutions to conflicts.. Now conflict are very very rare when you look at the use cases, and a much simpler replication model which could fail on conflicts would be probably largely enough for most cases. Concerto is quite overkill for the simple replication scenario. The power of Concerto is P2P replication just using a relay network which does not store anything. But in this world this scenario does not have a big future. Ludovic

...

This sounds kind of like Concerto also sharing the Advantages and the Disadvanges

However, some mid way would be nice in future (the sooner the better) simple rendering and maybe search in XEclipse would be great.

Yes, XEclipse does need some love. We'll see.

Thanks, Eduard

...

Regards

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: users-bounces@xwiki.org [mailto:users-bounces@xwiki.org] Im Auftrag von Eduard Moraru Gesendet: Dienstag, 6. Juli 2010 16:46 An: users@xwiki.org Betreff: Re: [xwiki-users] state of xwiki concerto

Hi,

On 07/06/2010 04:07 PM, Thomas Hoeschele wrote:

...

Just jumping in here, as I have to ask this: is there any Possilibity to

Use XWiki Offline apart from Concerto? I consider this a crucial feature for a lot of enterprise where employees have to work outside or have no internet in meetings.

...

Btw, I thing something like XEclipse with Page preview would suffice.

thank !

Well, XEclipse was originally part of the XWiki Concerto research project as well. AFAIK, there is currently no XWiki Offline standalone project.

So there are basically 2 options for offline work with xwiki: Concerto and XEclipse.

- Concerto involves having a local (in offline work context) xwiki installation that replicates completely or partially a remote xwiki. - Advantage: full featured XWiki experience. - Dissadvantage: big footprint, possibly instable due to current status. - XEclipse involves downloading a set of pages (or entire spaces) and working in an Eclipse environment. - Advantage: light, syntax highlighting, suggestions, etc. - Disadvantage: only wiki syntax mode is supported and partial rendering (since you don't have the wiki's entire contents with you).

Both options synchronize with remote XWiki when internet is available.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, Eduard

...

-------- Original-Nachricht --------

...

Datum: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:06:41 +0100 Von: Ponder Muse<ponder.muse@googlemail.com> An: XWiki Users<users@xwiki.org> Betreff: Re: [xwiki-users] state of xwiki concerto

...

Hi Eduard,

...

I have fixed the build issues and now Concerto should be building without problems.

Please make sure to follow the steps described at http://concerto.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Tutorial

Thanks for your efforts in making Concerto available again.

...

On the other hand, if you can wait a couple of hours, I am sure I will find a place to host the 80mb jar installer build of Concerto that I remade and fix the link available at http://concerto.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/DownloadAndInstall Please check the page for updates in about 12 hours.

I will give the built installer a go once its available at the above link.

Thank you for your interest in Concerto and I would greatly appreciate

...

your feedback on it, even though the development on this project is currently suspended.

Sure thing, I'll do that.

P.S.: Please keep in mind that, as Sergiu stated, even though the

...

project ended successfully, the prototype is not ready for production. I checked it, and it's running decently with the bundled XWiki Enterprise 1.8.1, but you should not use it for sensitive information.

No worries with it being just a prototype as we will trial it in a controlled lab environment only.

Thanks again for your efforts - much appreciated!

Regards, PM. _______________________________________________ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users

_______________________________________________ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users

_______________________________________________ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users

_______________________________________________ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users

-- Ludovic Dubost Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost -- Ludovic Dubost Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/ XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost

On 07/07/2010 07:32 AM, Thomas Hoeschele wrote:

Hi,

yeah but i thought the database would handle any conflicts, beside a read only mode is enough for enterprise environment. It would allow employees to access all the information needed offline, changes could be code only like XEclipse, which get solved once online again. E.G. in the company I'm working most of our handbooks, guidelines should get accessed through XWiki; often employees go to meetings on buildings sites where there is no internet connection, which means they have to access all the handbooks via filesystem, which is slow as they need to scroll through a foldersystem with ~1000 guides. I think here would be the real advantage of an offline XWiki.

This could be done with offline browser storage (HTML5).

...

Well this is not really enough, as this locks you in read-only mode. Concerto was meant to provide offline, but you need some additional code and storage on both the server and the client to run the replication model. The replication model is what guarantees solutions to conflicts..

Now conflict are very very rare when you look at the use cases, and a much simpler replication model which could fail on conflicts would be probably largely enough for most cases.

Concerto is quite overkill for the simple replication scenario. The power of Concerto is P2P replication just using a relay network which does not store anything. But in this world this scenario does not have a big future.

Ludovic

...

...

This sounds kind of like Concerto also sharing the Advantages and the Disadvanges

However, some mid way would be nice in future (the sooner the better) simple rendering and maybe search in XEclipse would be great.

Yes, XEclipse does need some love. We'll see.

Thanks, Eduard

...

Regards

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: users-bounces@xwiki.org [mailto:users-bounces@xwiki.org] Im Auftrag von Eduard Moraru Gesendet: Dienstag, 6. Juli 2010 16:46 An: users@xwiki.org Betreff: Re: [xwiki-users] state of xwiki concerto

Hi,

On 07/06/2010 04:07 PM, Thomas Hoeschele wrote:

...

Just jumping in here, as I have to ask this: is there any Possilibity to

Use XWiki Offline apart from Concerto? I consider this a crucial feature for a lot of enterprise where employees have to work outside or have no internet in meetings.

...

Btw, I thing something like XEclipse with Page preview would suffice.

thank !

Well, XEclipse was originally part of the XWiki Concerto research project as well. AFAIK, there is currently no XWiki Offline standalone project.

So there are basically 2 options for offline work with xwiki: Concerto and XEclipse.

- Concerto involves having a local (in offline work context) xwiki installation that replicates completely or partially a remote xwiki. - Advantage: full featured XWiki experience. - Dissadvantage: big footprint, possibly instable due to current status. - XEclipse involves downloading a set of pages (or entire spaces) and working in an Eclipse environment. - Advantage: light, syntax highlighting, suggestions, etc. - Disadvantage: only wiki syntax mode is supported and partial rendering (since you don't have the wiki's entire contents with you).

Both options synchronize with remote XWiki when internet is available.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, Eduard

...

-------- Original-Nachricht --------

...

Datum: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:06:41 +0100 Von: Ponder Muse<ponder.muse@googlemail.com> An: XWiki Users<users@xwiki.org> Betreff: Re: [xwiki-users] state of xwiki concerto

...

Hi Eduard,

> I have fixed the build issues and now Concerto should be building > without problems. > > Please make sure to follow the steps described at > http://concerto.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/Tutorial > > > Thanks for your efforts in making Concerto available again.

> On the other hand, if you can wait a couple of hours, I am sure I will > find a place to host the 80mb jar installer build of Concerto that I > remade and fix the link available at > http://concerto.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/DownloadAndInstall > Please check the page for updates in about 12 hours. > > > I will give the built installer a go once its available at the above link.

Thank you for your interest in Concerto and I would greatly appreciate

> your feedback on it, even though the development on this project is > currently suspended. > > > Sure thing, I'll do that.

P.S.: Please keep in mind that, as Sergiu stated, even though the

> project ended successfully, the prototype is not ready for production. I > checked it, and it's running decently with the bundled XWiki Enterprise > 1.8.1, but you should not use it for sensitive information. > > > No worries with it being just a prototype as we will trial it in a controlled lab environment only.

Thanks again for your efforts - much appreciated!

Regards, PM.

-- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/