Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model
I m using the XWiki farm and although I am stoked about the capabilities to add properties, create classes and use document as objects I still lack the complete understanding of the inner relationships and have to interpret existing code examples, the API docu and use trial and error for making (slow) progress. Here are two categories of questions, I intentionally did not post as separate items, since others might encounter the same: Category Bigger Picture: - I started creating my application using the current release on the xwiki.com farm, how much rewriting do I have to do after XWIKI V1.0 will be released? None I assume, but I want to make sure. - How is the visibility of references across spaces/pages? I assume references created locally on a page (e.g., $mydoc) stay local, means if you want for example work with one document on the menu and the toolbar and the main page, you have to create a kind of administrator object, which can be used across the xwiki or space. What is the recommended practice here? - How is the visibility of Objects across pages? I noticed that a link to another page from the menu page had the question mark behind it, if the home page was shown on the main page, but was available, if one of my own pages are on the main page. This suggests, although the menu and the home page have the same parent (do they?) and my own created page shares only the same root (xwiki I assume) with the menu page that there are mechanisms I don't understand. Please help - I would volunteer to create a docu about how to use the API, if I understood the inner guts of it. When is a documentation planned with some examples, who is in charge of it and could help? - Are there any recommended practices for how to use HTML constructs and the implication on how the panels and the main page look like then? E.g., using frame, iframe - How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism available? Category: How to do .... - How do I change a value of a property of an object and commit it so it is stored in the database? - How do I use the property "Database List Class", it seems very powerful in creating dynamic lists of values, references to other objects etc. but I am unable to decipher how to use it. -How do I create Classes inheriting other Classes I created? Thanks in advance Uwe -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Xwiki.com-API-stability-and-Class-Object-model-tf35240... Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi Uwe, On Apr 4, 2007, at 7:37 AM, Oova wrote:
I m using the XWiki farm and although I am stoked about the capabilities to add properties, create classes and use document as objects I still lack the complete understanding of the inner relationships and have to interpret existing code examples, the API docu and use trial and error for making (slow) progress. Here are two categories of questions, I intentionally did not post as separate items, since others might encounter the same:
Category Bigger Picture: - I started creating my application using the current release on the xwiki.com farm, how much rewriting do I have to do after XWIKI V1.0 will be released? None I assume, but I want to make sure.
The farm is upgraded when new releases come out but we're lagging a bit behind. I think the farm is currently on 1.0 Beta 3. This means that you won't have anything to change when we upgrade to Beta 6 and later 1.0, etc.
- How is the visibility of references across spaces/pages? I assume references created locally on a page (e.g., $mydoc) stay local, means if you want for example work with one document on the menu and the toolbar and the main page, you have to create a kind of administrator object, which can be used across the xwiki or space. What is the recommended practice here?
Have you tried it? I don't have the time right now but I'd say the scope is global.
- How is the visibility of Objects across pages? I noticed that a link to another page from the menu page had the question mark behind it, if the home page was shown on the main page, but was available, if one of my own pages are on the main page. This suggests, although the menu and the home page have the same parent (do they?) and my own created page shares only the same root (xwiki I assume) with the menu page that there are mechanisms I don't understand. Please help
A full page name has the space mentioned as in Space.Page (e.g. Main.WebHome). If on a page from a different space you include pages from another space you need to use the full name with the space. Otherwise it's not required.
- I would volunteer to create a docu about how to use the API, if I understood the inner guts of it. When is a documentation planned with some examples, who is in charge of it and could help?
Have you checked the documentation on http://xwiki.org? What is missing? Everyone is in charge... It's a wiki. You see something that is required, you volunteer, you ask on the list first and explain what you want to do and when you get agreement, you edit pages on xwiki.org and implement it. I do look after xwiki.org to ensure it stays consistent, has a good quality, etc.
- Are there any recommended practices for how to use HTML constructs and the implication on how the panels and the main page look like then? E.g., using frame, iframe
Not that I know of. General rule is to use the minimum of HTML.
- How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism available?
Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-) I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!
Category: How to do .... - How do I change a value of a property of an object and commit it so it is stored in the database?
Just edit the property and save the page. If you're talking programatically, then set the value and call $doc.save() (I haven't tried it so I'm not sure).
- How do I use the property "Database List Class", it seems very powerful in creating dynamic lists of values, references to other objects etc. but I am unable to decipher how to use it.
Never used it
-How do I create Classes inheriting other Classes I created?
You can't (AFAIK). Thanks -Vincent
Hi Vincent, Thanks for the prompt response, Please see my answers below. I took out the pieces, which are answered. vmassol wrote:
Hi Uwe,
On Apr 4, 2007, at 7:37 AM, Oova wrote:
- How is the visibility of references across spaces/pages? I assume references created locally on a page (e.g., $mydoc) stay local, means if you want for example work with one document on the menu and the toolbar and the main page, you have to create a kind of administrator object, which can be used across the xwiki or space. What is the recommended practice here?
Have you tried it? I don't have the time right now but I'd say the scope is global.
I tried, and the vairables were not global. Mistake?Design?Problem I had?
- I would volunteer to create a docu about how to use the API, if I understood the inner guts of it. When is a documentation planned with some examples, who is in charge of it and could help?
Have you checked the documentation on http://xwiki.org? What is missing? Everyone is in charge... It's a wiki. You see something that is required, you volunteer, you ask on the list first and explain what you want to do and when you get agreement, you edit pages on xwiki.org and implement it.
I do look after xwiki.org to ensure it stays consistent, has a good quality, etc.
Vincent, I spent hours trying to understand the meaning of the methods and their parameters in the API docu. After I thought I had a hunch, I tried them and failed in approx. 60% of the cases (which just means I didn't understand). The docu is generated automatically and only if somebody added a comment to the method, you have additional information. Example: getAttachmentURL(java.lang.String filename, java.lang.String action) , what is "action"? I have no clue, other parameters I am clueless about is 'key'. What does the $context really mean and how do I use it correctly? What does the method getProtectedContext() do, the notion of protectedContext is new to me, etc. etc. Did I miss a whole documentation, which explains such things? I hope I was more clear what I meant. And I understand it is a wiki and everybody is invited to contribute, but I need to understand the architecture and concept first, before I start documenting it. Maybe it is just me.
- How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism available?
Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!
I was looking for import/export with search function and found one relevant document from you http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which doesn't apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?
Thanks -Vincent
-- You receive this message as a subscriber of the xwiki-users@objectweb.org mailing list. To unsubscribe: mailto:xwiki-users-unsubscribe@objectweb.org For general help: mailto:sympa@objectweb.org?subject=help ObjectWeb mailing lists service home page: http://www.objectweb.org/wws
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On Apr 4, 2007, at 5:04 PM, Oova wrote:
Hi Vincent, Thanks for the prompt response, Please see my answers below. I took out the pieces, which are answered.
[snip]
- How is the visibility of references across spaces/pages? I assume references created locally on a page (e.g., $mydoc) stay local, means if you want for example work with one document on the menu and the toolbar and the main page, you have to create a kind of administrator object, which can be used across the xwiki or space. What is the recommended practice here?
Have you tried it? I don't have the time right now but I'd say the scope is global.
I tried, and the vairables were not global. Mistake?Design?Problem I had?
Cool then, I was worried the scope was global :) I can think of 2 ways to share data: 1) Use the Servlet scopes: Application scope, Session scope or Request scope. You can get access to the request using $request. The session can be obtained with $request.getSession(), etc. 2) Use the XWiki Context: $context.put("mykey", someObject); and $context.get("mykey")
- I would volunteer to create a docu about how to use the API, if I understood the inner guts of it. When is a documentation planned with some examples, who is in charge of it and could help?
Have you checked the documentation on http://xwiki.org? What is missing? Everyone is in charge... It's a wiki. You see something that is required, you volunteer, you ask on the list first and explain what you want to do and when you get agreement, you edit pages on xwiki.org and implement it.
I do look after xwiki.org to ensure it stays consistent, has a good quality, etc.
Vincent, I spent hours trying to understand the meaning of the methods and their parameters in the API docu. After I thought I had a hunch, I tried them and failed in approx. 60% of the cases (which just means I didn't understand).
40% is quite good seen the low level of comments... :)
The docu is generated automatically and only if somebody added a comment to the method, you have additional information. Example: getAttachmentURL(java.lang.String filename, java.lang.String action) , what is "action"? I have no clue, other parameters I am clueless about is 'key'. What does the $context really mean and how do I use it correctly? What does the method getProtectedContext() do, the notion of protectedContext is new to me, etc. etc. Did I miss a whole documentation, which explains such things? I hope I was more clear what I meant.
Yes, and all your points are very valid. We're missing a developer's guide. We discussed this with Jean-Vincent the other day and we came up with the following ideas: http://www.nabble.com/Developer%27s-Guide-improvements-ideas- tf3455730.html#a9641200 Right now, I think the easiest way for someone to develop on top of XWiki is by looking at examples: - by looking at existing pages sources - by looking in the Code zone on xwiki.org Now of course, once you figure out what something is doing, help is welcome to improve the doco.
And I understand it is a wiki and everybody is invited to contribute, but I need to understand the architecture and concept first, before I start documenting it. Maybe it is just me.
No it's not you... Documentation isn't too good on the development side.
- How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism available?
Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!
I was looking for import/export with search function and found one relevant document from you http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which doesn't apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?
ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't apply to users of the farm? Thanks -Vincent
I am very sympathetic to Uwe's plight, as even with the Javadoc I was all but lost until I actually started running it under Eclipse, where I could follow references through all of the indirections and blind interfaces. An idea that I had some time ago got some discussion, but no action (including from me): have XWiki pages that import the Javadoc through a filter that decorates parts of it with comment blocks for people to scribble on, so that our collective understanding can accumulate bit by bit and the real Javadoc comments can be improved. I think the reason that it never went anywhere was that, in addition to not having a lot of time (despite knowing that it would save a lot more time than it cost us), we're all such a lot of incurable GEEKS that we had to architect a perfect, scalable, future-proof solution before beginning to work. Ironic enough since the whole wiki concept is about creating an environment where ideas can be developed together starting with just the barest seed and proving ideas as they are put forward, scrapping them and starting over when it gets too hard to continue in one direction. Now that I think of it, one reason that I didn't get anywhere in trying something like that was that I was unable to locate an HTML DOM library that I could read the pages into, decorate and display. I think I'm going to start another Idea page... brain[sic]
-----Original Message----- From: Vincent Massol [mailto:vincent@massol.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:31 AM To: xwiki-users@objectweb.org Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model
On Apr 4, 2007, at 5:04 PM, Oova wrote:
Hi Vincent, Thanks for the prompt response, Please see my answers below. I took out the pieces, which are answered.
[snip]
- How is the visibility of references across spaces/pages? I assume references created locally on a page (e.g., $mydoc) stay local, means if you want for example work with one document on the menu and the toolbar and the main page, you have to create a kind of administrator object, which can be used across the xwiki or space. What is the recommended practice here?
Have you tried it? I don't have the time right now but I'd say the scope is global.
I tried, and the vairables were not global. Mistake?Design?Problem I had?
Cool then, I was worried the scope was global :)
I can think of 2 ways to share data:
1) Use the Servlet scopes: Application scope, Session scope or Request scope. You can get access to the request using $request. The session can be obtained with $request.getSession(), etc.
2) Use the XWiki Context:
$context.put("mykey", someObject);
and
$context.get("mykey")
- I would volunteer to create a docu about how to use the API, if I understood the inner guts of it. When is a documentation planned with some examples, who is in charge of it and could help?
Have you checked the documentation on http://xwiki.org? What is missing? Everyone is in charge... It's a wiki. You see something that is required, you volunteer, you ask on the list first and explain what you want to do and when you get agreement, you edit pages on xwiki.org and implement it.
I do look after xwiki.org to ensure it stays consistent, has a good quality, etc.
Vincent, I spent hours trying to understand the meaning of the methods and their parameters in the API docu. After I thought I had a hunch, I tried them and failed in approx. 60% of the cases (which just means I didn't understand).
40% is quite good seen the low level of comments... :)
The docu is generated automatically and only if somebody added a comment to the method, you have additional information. Example: getAttachmentURL(java.lang.String filename, java.lang.String action) , what is "action"? I have no clue, other parameters I am clueless about is 'key'. What does the $context really mean and how do I use it correctly? What does the method getProtectedContext() do, the notion of protectedContext is new to me, etc. etc. Did I miss a whole documentation, which explains such things? I hope I was more clear what I meant.
Yes, and all your points are very valid. We're missing a developer's guide. We discussed this with Jean-Vincent the other day and we came up with the following ideas: http://www.nabble.com/Developer%27s-Guide-improvements-ideas- tf3455730.html#a9641200
Right now, I think the easiest way for someone to develop on top of XWiki is by looking at examples: - by looking at existing pages sources - by looking in the Code zone on xwiki.org
Now of course, once you figure out what something is doing, help is welcome to improve the doco.
And I understand it is a wiki and everybody is invited to contribute, but I need to understand the architecture and concept first, before I start documenting it. Maybe it is just me.
No it's not you... Documentation isn't too good on the development side.
- How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import
mechanism
available?
Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!
I was looking for import/export with search function and found one relevant document from you http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which doesn't apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?
ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't apply to users of the farm?
Thanks -Vincent
On Apr 4, 2007, at 6:59 PM, THOMAS, BRIAN M ((ATTSI)) wrote:
I am very sympathetic to Uwe's plight, as even with the Javadoc I was all but lost until I actually started running it under Eclipse, where I could follow references through all of the indirections and blind interfaces.
An idea that I had some time ago got some discussion, but no action (including from me): have XWiki pages that import the Javadoc through a filter that decorates parts of it with comment blocks for people to scribble on, so that our collective understanding can accumulate bit by bit and the real Javadoc comments can be improved.
I think the reason that it never went anywhere was that, in addition to not having a lot of time (despite knowing that it would save a lot more time than it cost us), we're all such a lot of incurable GEEKS that we had to architect a perfect, scalable, future-proof solution before beginning to work.
how true... So we end up doing nothing in the end...
Ironic enough since the whole wiki concept is about creating an environment where ideas can be developed together starting with just the barest seed and proving ideas as they are put forward, scrapping them and starting over when it gets too hard to continue in one direction.
Now that I think of it, one reason that I didn't get anywhere in trying something like that was that I was unable to locate an HTML DOM library that I could read the pages into, decorate and display.
I think I'm going to start another Idea page...
Actually there's something similar that exists: docweb (See http:// doc.java.sun.com/DocWeb/) Of course it would be a killer app if we could make this in xwiki. The killer feature would be of course that after review the changes are incorporated in SVN (using svnkit for example). Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: Vincent Massol [mailto:vincent@massol.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:31 AM To: xwiki-users@objectweb.org Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model
On Apr 4, 2007, at 5:04 PM, Oova wrote:
Hi Vincent, Thanks for the prompt response, Please see my answers below. I took out the pieces, which are answered.
[snip]
- How is the visibility of references across spaces/pages? I assume references created locally on a page (e.g., $mydoc) stay local, means if you want for example work with one document on the menu and the toolbar and the main page, you have to create a kind of administrator object, which can be used across the xwiki or space. What is the recommended practice here?
Have you tried it? I don't have the time right now but I'd say the scope is global.
I tried, and the vairables were not global. Mistake?Design?Problem I had?
Cool then, I was worried the scope was global :)
I can think of 2 ways to share data:
1) Use the Servlet scopes: Application scope, Session scope or Request scope. You can get access to the request using $request. The session can be obtained with $request.getSession(), etc.
2) Use the XWiki Context:
$context.put("mykey", someObject);
and
$context.get("mykey")
- I would volunteer to create a docu about how to use the API, if I understood the inner guts of it. When is a documentation planned with some examples, who is in charge of it and could help?
Have you checked the documentation on http://xwiki.org? What is missing? Everyone is in charge... It's a wiki. You see something that is required, you volunteer, you ask on the list first and explain what you want to do and when you get agreement, you edit pages on xwiki.org and implement it.
I do look after xwiki.org to ensure it stays consistent, has a good quality, etc.
Vincent, I spent hours trying to understand the meaning of the methods and their parameters in the API docu. After I thought I had a hunch, I tried them and failed in approx. 60% of the cases (which just means I didn't understand).
40% is quite good seen the low level of comments... :)
The docu is generated automatically and only if somebody added a comment to the method, you have additional information. Example: getAttachmentURL(java.lang.String filename, java.lang.String action) , what is "action"? I have no clue, other parameters I am clueless about is 'key'. What does the $context really mean and how do I use it correctly? What does the method getProtectedContext() do, the notion of protectedContext is new to me, etc. etc. Did I miss a whole documentation, which explains such things? I hope I was more clear what I meant.
Yes, and all your points are very valid. We're missing a developer's guide. We discussed this with Jean-Vincent the other day and we came up with the following ideas: http://www.nabble.com/Developer%27s-Guide-improvements-ideas- tf3455730.html#a9641200
Right now, I think the easiest way for someone to develop on top of XWiki is by looking at examples: - by looking at existing pages sources - by looking in the Code zone on xwiki.org
Now of course, once you figure out what something is doing, help is welcome to improve the doco.
And I understand it is a wiki and everybody is invited to contribute, but I need to understand the architecture and concept first, before I start documenting it. Maybe it is just me.
No it's not you... Documentation isn't too good on the development side.
- How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import
mechanism
available?
Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!
I was looking for import/export with search function and found one relevant document from you http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which doesn't apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?
ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't apply to users of the farm?
Thanks -Vincent
-- You receive this message as a subscriber of the xwiki- users@objectweb.org mailing list. To unsubscribe: mailto:xwiki-users-unsubscribe@objectweb.org For general help: mailto:sympa@objectweb.org?subject=help ObjectWeb mailing lists service home page: http://www.objectweb.org/ wws
Actually there's something similar that exists: docweb (See http:// doc.java.sun.com/DocWeb/)
Of course it would be a killer app if we could make this in xwiki. The killer feature would be of course that after review the changes are incorporated in SVN (using svnkit for example).
If by "killer feature" you mean the one that killed the idea, I'll agree... We can gain a great deal of benefit (including support time not stolen from developers) if we can get something going and start collecting content and helping keep users off our backs; worrying about how to incorporate the content into the code can wait for when we have some content to incorporate. If you have to cut and paste the content by hand it's still loads quicker than having to make it up yourself... And besides, it's the Wiki Way...
Thanks -Vincent
On Apr 4, 2007, at 7:58 PM, THOMAS, BRIAN M ((ATTSI)) wrote:
Actually there's something similar that exists: docweb (See http:// doc.java.sun.com/DocWeb/)
Of course it would be a killer app if we could make this in xwiki. The killer feature would be of course that after review the changes are incorporated in SVN (using svnkit for example).
If by "killer feature" you mean the one that killed the idea, I'll agree...
We can gain a great deal of benefit (including support time not stolen from developers) if we can get something going and start collecting content and helping keep users off our backs;
I wish this were true... I don't think a second that it'll work though as: 1) users will say that they cannot document if they don't know what it does 2) once users know what it does, they usually go away 3) users don't like to document anymore than developers like it :) But I like the idea... and would be game to try it... if someone else implements it... (all my time is currently used for the 1.0 release)
worrying about how to incorporate the content into the code can wait for when we have some content to incorporate. If you have to cut and paste the content by hand it's still loads quicker than having to make it up yourself... And besides, it's the Wiki Way...
Yeah... Thanks -Vincent
I wish this were true... I don't think a second that it'll work though as: 1) users will say that they cannot document if they don't know what it does 2) once users know what it does, they usually go away 3) users don't like to document anymore than developers like it
:)
Your points are generally true, but when you talk of "users" you're not necessarily talking of these users. I'm talking about people like me who would have loved it if someone had just told them this or that little tidbit of information, and gladly contribute it, especially when it's in the context of the document
But I like the idea... and would be game to try it... if someone else implements it... (all my time is currently used for the 1.0 release)
The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't found an HTML DOM parser. Is there one in the myriad of libraries that come with XWiki?
Guys, I must be another breed, I barely follow you, 'these' users and 'those' users, automatically generated comment pages for users to fill it out, etc..... I am just lost or too old fashioned. My humble opinion is as follows. In house building as in software, if you want to enable somebody else to build an application (house) you give them a description, what kind of particular applications (houses) you especially are qualified to help building FASTER and BETTER than usual (Benefits overview and tools to gain those benefits). You also write, what kind of skill set might be useful to take advantage of the tools your provide. Then you provide the architecture (blueprint, ....) and explain what kind of interfaces (for walls, windows, plumbing, roofing,...) you created to enable others to build. To expedite the break-in you give some sample applications illustrating how the architecture, interfaces and tools helped gain the benefits for some use cases. And I am sorry, no offense, you do not ask the engineer who designed the software kit/ housing builder kit do document it, otherwise it becomes a kit from highly skilled engineers for other highly skilled engineers written in a highly specialized technise language, which the target audience might not speak. You normally ask a guinea pig out of the targeted audience to try to document, what it understands and let it build at least one application (house) using the tools provided. And you nurture the guinea pig with enough food, encouragement and help, so the snowball effect making the whole target audience aware of your great stuff can start and you as the engineer can go back cranking out the next great SW and tool for even better applications and houses. Making sense? Any agreement? I am a guinea pig, I am eager to use Xwiki, because for some reason, I think XWiki is a great concept (don't let me go into the 'Crossing the chasm modeling, or the 4 steps of the epiphany', both great models of how to establish innovation in the market place successfully and go beyond the innovator's initial excitement). But you need to let the targeted audience pick-up the momentum. Enough Philosophy, if there is any agreement on what I said before, let me, Guillaume and other 'users' spread the word in a lower level technise. To enable us we need to understand - targeted user (groups) - architecture - concept of object model and API - guts (and not only nice webpages) of successful applications of the XWiki (or is the XWikis main purpose to create nice looking webpages? I did not think so) Uwe THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) wrote:
I wish this were true... I don't think a second that it'll work though as: 1) users will say that they cannot document if they don't know what it does 2) once users know what it does, they usually go away 3) users don't like to document anymore than developers like it
:)
Your points are generally true, but when you talk of "users" you're not necessarily talking of these users. I'm talking about people like me who would have loved it if someone had just told them this or that little tidbit of information, and gladly contribute it, especially when it's in the context of the document
But I like the idea... and would be game to try it... if someone else implements it... (all my time is currently used for the 1.0 release)
The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't found an HTML DOM parser. Is there one in the myriad of libraries that come with XWiki?
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Well said! You can ask the developers for assistance whenever you have difficulties understanding something. Sergiu On 4/5/07, Oova <ping.scan@gmail.com> wrote:
Guys,
I must be another breed, I barely follow you, 'these' users and 'those' users, automatically generated comment pages for users to fill it out, etc..... I am just lost or too old fashioned. My humble opinion is as follows. In house building as in software, if you want to enable somebody else to build an application (house) you give them a description, what kind of particular applications (houses) you especially are qualified to help building FASTER and BETTER than usual (Benefits overview and tools to gain those benefits). You also write, what kind of skill set might be useful to take advantage of the tools your provide. Then you provide the architecture (blueprint, ....) and explain what kind of interfaces (for walls, windows, plumbing, roofing,...) you created to enable others to build. To expedite the break-in you give some sample applications illustrating how the architecture, interfaces and tools helped gain the benefits for some use cases. And I am sorry, no offense, you do not ask the engineer who designed the software kit/ housing builder kit do document it, otherwise it becomes a kit from highly skilled engineers for other highly skilled engineers written in a highly specialized technise language, which the target audience might not speak. You normally ask a guinea pig out of the targeted audience to try to document, what it understands and let it build at least one application (house) using the tools provided. And you nurture the guinea pig with enough food, encouragement and help, so the snowball effect making the whole target audience aware of your great stuff can start and you as the engineer can go back cranking out the next great SW and tool for even better applications and houses. Making sense? Any agreement? I am a guinea pig, I am eager to use Xwiki, because for some reason, I think XWiki is a great concept (don't let me go into the 'Crossing the chasm modeling, or the 4 steps of the epiphany', both great models of how to establish innovation in the market place successfully and go beyond the innovator's initial excitement). But you need to let the targeted audience pick-up the momentum.
Enough Philosophy, if there is any agreement on what I said before, let me, Guillaume and other 'users' spread the word in a lower level technise. To enable us we need to understand - targeted user (groups) - architecture - concept of object model and API - guts (and not only nice webpages) of successful applications of the XWiki (or is the XWikis main purpose to create nice looking webpages? I did not think so)
Uwe
THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) wrote:
I wish this were true... I don't think a second that it'll work though as: 1) users will say that they cannot document if they don't know what it does 2) once users know what it does, they usually go away 3) users don't like to document anymore than developers like it
:)
Your points are generally true, but when you talk of "users" you're not necessarily talking of these users. I'm talking about people like me who would have loved it if someone had just told them this or that little tidbit of information, and gladly contribute it, especially when it's in the context of the document
But I like the idea... and would be game to try it... if someone else implements it... (all my time is currently used for the 1.0 release)
The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't found an HTML DOM parser. Is there one in the myriad of libraries that come with XWiki?
Hi Uwe, I think the easiest way right now for you to get those rights and the right interface (the 1.0, not the old one which is still default on the farm) would be to give us the address of the XWiki you are using so that we can give it a look and help you a bit more effectively. I am ok to do that, I will have some time tomorrow if you need a hand to switch to the new skin and start doing some basic stuff. On the "philosophical" side, I would say that XWiki's gut compared with most other wikis lie in the fact that you can create cookie cutters and you do not need to cut all your cookies by hand. A successful app is therefore first an application that has a well-defined aim (ie, "I want to use a wiki as a contact manager in my company") and then one which builds on the tools and interface provided by XWiki to achieve this aim more effectively than a traditional wiki would. What does the object model provides you with? Basically, a way to automate template duplication and modification. XWiki lets you separate form and content, a bit like the distinction between html and css. You can let the actual content to end-users and take care of the layout. You can create elements that will operate on specific subsets (eg, only a given value in the pages of a given space) to provide users with effective ways to browse through content: for instance, a search searching only for elements in FAQ objects in the FAQ space, or only in the content of answers field and not in the content of questions field for instance, which would be impossible with a standard wiki. Currently, learning how to do so depends on the availability of existing code... I think we can progressively change this together. As regards the documentation, right now it depends on user like you and me, who have the time and motivation to document new things as they come by them. I am not sure any "general framework" or whatever would be that useful here. It is more about everybody taking small, incremental steps, say 5 minutes a day to improve a page, add useful comments to the wiki and so on. I have started trying to do that, adding a FAQ, an application page, a reference and so on when I could. Hopefully if the wiki way paradigm holds any truth we should end up with an amazing, Wikipedia-like database of our own that would tell all the secrets of XWiki. My take is, let's give it a try and we'll see what happens next :-) Guillaume PS: I do not mean to say that the killer app discussed before is not a good idea, only that (as I think Brian made the point earlier) it is easier to spare 5 minutes than 5 hours to work on XWiki.org... On 05/04/07, Sergiu Dumitriu <sergiu.dumitriu@gmail.com> wrote:
Well said!
You can ask the developers for assistance whenever you have difficulties understanding something.
Sergiu
On 4/5/07, Oova < ping.scan@gmail.com> wrote:
Guys,
I must be another breed, I barely follow you, 'these' users and 'those' users, automatically generated comment pages for users to fill it out, etc..... I am just lost or too old fashioned. My humble opinion is as follows. In house building as in software, if you want to enable somebody else to build an application (house) you give them a description, what kind of particular applications (houses) you especially are qualified to help building FASTER and BETTER than usual (Benefits overview and tools to gain those benefits). You also write, what kind of
skill set might be useful to take advantage of the tools your provide. Then you provide the architecture (blueprint, ....) and explain what kind of interfaces (for walls, windows, plumbing, roofing,...) you created to enable others to build. To expedite the break-in you give some sample applications illustrating how the architecture, interfaces and tools helped gain the benefits for some use cases. And I am sorry, no offense, you do not ask the engineer who designed the software kit/ housing builder kit do document it, otherwise it becomes a kit from highly skilled engineers for other highly skilled engineers written in a highly specialized technise language, which the target audience might not speak. You normally ask a guinea pig out of the targeted audience to try to document, what it understands and let it build at least one application (house) using the tools provided. And you
nurture the guinea pig with enough food, encouragement and help, so the snowball effect making the whole target audience aware of your great stuff can start and you as the engineer can go back cranking out the next great SW and tool for even better applications and houses. Making sense? Any agreement? I am a guinea pig, I am eager to use Xwiki, because for some reason, I think XWiki is a great concept (don't let me go into the 'Crossing the chasm modeling, or the 4 steps of the epiphany', both great models of how to establish innovation in the market place successfully and go beyond the innovator's initial excitement). But you need to let the targeted audience pick-up the momentum.
Enough Philosophy, if there is any agreement on what I said before, let me, Guillaume and other 'users' spread the word in a lower level technise. To enable us we need to understand - targeted user (groups) - architecture - concept of object model and API - guts (and not only nice webpages) of successful applications of the XWiki (or is the XWikis main purpose to create nice looking webpages? I did not think so)
Uwe
THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) wrote:
I wish this were true... I don't think a second that it'll work though as: 1) users will say that they cannot document if they don't know what it does 2) once users know what it does, they usually go away 3) users don't like to document anymore than developers like it
:)
Your points are generally true, but when you talk of "users" you're
not
necessarily talking of these users. I'm talking about people like me who would have loved it if someone had just told them this or that little tidbit of information, and gladly contribute it, especially when it's in the context of the document
But I like the idea... and would be game to try it... if someone else implements it... (all my time is currently used for the 1.0 release)
The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't found an HTML DOM parser. Is there one in the myriad of libraries that come with XWiki?
-- You receive this message as a subscriber of the xwiki-users@objectweb.orgmailing list. To unsubscribe: mailto:xwiki-users-unsubscribe@objectweb.org For general help: mailto:sympa@objectweb.org?subject=help ObjectWeb mailing lists service home page: http://www.objectweb.org/wws
Guillaume Lerouge wrote:
Hi Uwe,
I think the easiest way right now for you to get those rights and the right interface (the 1.0, not the old one which is still default on the farm) would be to give us the address of the XWiki you are using so that we can give it a look and help you a bit more effectively.
I am ok to do that, I will have some time tomorrow if you need a hand to switch to the new skin and start doing some basic stuff.
Guillaume, I am excited about your help if I just knew what exactly are
you helping with?
On the "philosophical" side, I would say that XWiki's gut compared with most other wikis lie in the fact that you can create cookie cutters and you do not need to cut all your cookies by hand.
A successful app is therefore first an application that has a well-defined aim (ie, "I want to use a wiki as a contact manager in my company") and then one which builds on the tools and interface provided by XWiki to achieve this aim more effectively than a traditional wiki would.
What does the object model provides you with? Basically, a way to automate template duplication and modification. XWiki lets you separate form and content, a bit like the distinction between html and css. You can let the actual content to end-users and take care of the layout.
You can create elements that will operate on specific subsets (eg, only a given value in the pages of a given space) to provide users with effective ways to browse through content: for instance, a search searching only for elements in FAQ objects in the FAQ space, or only in the content of answers field and not in the content of questions field for instance, which would be impossible with a standard wiki. Currently, learning how to do so depends on the availability of existing code... I think we can progressively change this together.
thanks for the introduction, we need to get some crisp description out, elevator speech like, let's pick up our idea of a use case page on the wiki idea page, I'd like to defer any discussion about that to the idea page, if yo don't mind.
As regards the documentation, right now it depends on user like you and me, who have the time and motivation to document new things as they come by them.
See that is what I can't really agree with. I am still an engineer and think in concepts. I am not going to spend much time on figuring out how to put a nail in the beam with what hammer by asking the carpenter how he does it or worse try it myself WITHOUT asking the architect, how the house should be build and what this particular hammer or nail creates in terms of benefits. If any hammer or nail is good then fine too. Making sense? The object/date model for the main constructs $doc, $xwiki, $context and others are critical and key objects as I understand and should be explained first including their methods.
I am not sure any "general framework" or whatever would be that useful here. It is more about everybody taking small, incremental steps, say 5 minutes a day to improve a page, add useful comments to the wiki and so on.
I agree that for incremental additions you create incremental descriptions, I am at the root, I am looking at the API doc and see a lot of words w/o clear concept. If I start documenting this incrementally, I will delete as many of my comments as I add because I have to learn it the hard way and have incremental light bulbs coming on. I like a bigger light bulb in the beginning in more efficient way much better by having some time with one of the star archtects amongs the users/developers to make substantial progress.
I have started trying to do that, adding a FAQ, an application page, a reference and so on when I could.
Hopefully if the wiki way paradigm holds any truth we should end up with an amazing, Wikipedia-like database of our own that would tell all the secrets of XWiki. My take is, let's give it a try and we'll see what happens next :-)
Guillaume
PS: I do not mean to say that the killer app discussed before is not a good idea, only that (as I think Brian made the point earlier) it is easier to spare 5 minutes than 5 hours to work on XWiki.org...
On 05/04/07, Sergiu Dumitriu <sergiu.dumitriu@gmail.com> wrote:
Well said!
You can ask the developers for assistance whenever you have difficulties understanding something.
Sergiu
On 4/5/07, Oova < ping.scan@gmail.com> wrote:
Guys,
I must be another breed, I barely follow you, 'these' users and 'those' users, automatically generated comment pages for users to fill it out, etc..... I am just lost or too old fashioned. My humble opinion is as follows. In house building as in software, if you want to enable somebody else to build an application (house) you give them a description, what kind of particular applications (houses) you especially are qualified to help building FASTER and BETTER than usual (Benefits overview and tools to gain those benefits). You also write, what kind
of
skill set might be useful to take advantage of the tools your provide. Then you provide the architecture (blueprint, ....) and explain what kind of interfaces (for walls, windows, plumbing, roofing,...) you created to enable others to build. To expedite the break-in you give some sample applications illustrating how the architecture, interfaces and tools helped gain the benefits for some use cases. And I am sorry, no offense, you do not ask the engineer who designed the software kit/ housing builder kit do document it, otherwise it becomes a kit from highly skilled engineers for other highly skilled engineers written in a highly specialized technise language, which the target audience might not speak. You normally ask a guinea pig out of the targeted audience to try to document, what it understands and let
it
build at least one application (house) using the tools provided. And you
nurture the guinea pig with enough food, encouragement and help, so the snowball effect making the whole target audience aware of your great stuff can start and you as the engineer can go back cranking out the next great SW and tool for even better applications and houses. Making sense? Any agreement? I am a guinea pig, I am eager to use Xwiki, because for some reason, I think XWiki is a great concept (don't let me go into the 'Crossing the chasm modeling, or the 4 steps of the epiphany', both great models of how to establish innovation in the market place successfully and go beyond the innovator's initial excitement). But you need to let the targeted audience pick-up the momentum.
Enough Philosophy, if there is any agreement on what I said before, let me, Guillaume and other 'users' spread the word in a lower level technise. To enable us we need to understand - targeted user (groups) - architecture - concept of object model and API - guts (and not only nice webpages) of successful applications of the XWiki (or is the XWikis main purpose to create nice looking webpages? I did not think so)
Uwe
THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) wrote:
I wish this were true... I don't think a second that it'll work though as: 1) users will say that they cannot document if they don't know what it does 2) once users know what it does, they usually go away 3) users don't like to document anymore than developers like it
:)
Your points are generally true, but when you talk of "users" you're
not
necessarily talking of these users. I'm talking about people like me who would have loved it if someone had just told them this or that little tidbit of information, and gladly contribute it, especially when it's in the context of the document
But I like the idea... and would be game to try it... if someone else implements it... (all my time is currently used for the 1.0 release)
The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't found an HTML DOM parser. Is there one in the myriad of libraries that come with XWiki?
-- You receive this message as a subscriber of the xwiki-users@objectweb.orgmailing list. To unsubscribe: mailto:xwiki-users-unsubscribe@objectweb.org For general help: mailto:sympa@objectweb.org?subject=help ObjectWeb mailing lists service home page: http://www.objectweb.org/wws
-- http://wikibc.blogspot.com/
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-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Xwiki.com-API-stability-and-Class-Object-model-tf35240... Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I am entirely sympathetic to your situation, having been pretty much in the same situation about a year ago. And I believe that I agree strongly with your feelings and outlook, and I'm personally very eager to help those who are not as deeply experienced to get up the learning curve faster than I did and, as you say (if I understand you correctly) to pass it on to a yet larger and less-experienced group of users. As to 'these' users and 'those' users, I was responding to Vincent's skepticism about people actually coming in and annotating the JavaDoc pages. Of course they wouldn't if they didn't understand them, but I would love to do this in the hope of improving the adoption of XWiki, knowing exactly what would be needed to prevent others (like me, at least) from going through the pain I went through. My explanations may still be opaque to others, but once they get through it they can share what they've learned. At any rate, providing the opportunity for experienced users of the APIs to annotate the Javadocs without disturbing the actual source code would allow people like me to share that knowledge in the most appropriate place - right alongside the official documentation. My feeling was that Vincent was not adequately acknowledging the new class[es] of users that tools of this nature enable - those who can now create end-user applications without needing server access, and even those (like me) who stand more or less in the gap between the application builders and the raw system interfaces, who like to make the tools more robust and easier to use. brain[sic]
-----Original Message----- From: Oova [mailto:ping.scan@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 2:48 PM To: xwiki-users@objectweb.org Subject: [xwiki-users] RE: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model
Guys,
I must be another breed, I barely follow you, 'these' users and 'those' users, automatically generated comment pages for users to fill it out, etc..... I am just lost or too old fashioned. My humble opinion is as follows. In house building as in software, if you want to enable somebody else to build an application (house) you give them a description, what kind of particular applications (houses) you especially are qualified to help building FASTER and BETTER than usual (Benefits overview and tools to gain those benefits). You also write, what kind of skill set might be useful to take advantage of the tools your provide. Then you provide the architecture (blueprint, ....) and explain what kind of interfaces (for walls, windows, plumbing, roofing,...) you created to enable others to build. To expedite the break-in you give some sample applications illustrating how the architecture, interfaces and tools helped gain the benefits for some use cases. And I am sorry, no offense, you do not ask the engineer who designed the software kit/ housing builder kit do document it, otherwise it becomes a kit from highly skilled engineers for other highly skilled engineers written in a highly specialized technise language, which the target audience might not speak. You normally ask a guinea pig out of the targeted audience to try to document, what it understands and let it build at least one application (house) using the tools provided. And you nurture the guinea pig with enough food, encouragement and help, so the snowball effect making the whole target audience aware of your great stuff can start and you as the engineer can go back cranking out the next great SW and tool for even better applications and houses. Making sense? Any agreement? I am a guinea pig, I am eager to use Xwiki, because for some reason, I think XWiki is a great concept (don't let me go into the 'Crossing the chasm modeling, or the 4 steps of the epiphany', both great models of how to establish innovation in the market place successfully and go beyond the innovator's initial excitement). But you need to let the targeted audience pick-up the momentum.
Enough Philosophy, if there is any agreement on what I said before, let me, Guillaume and other 'users' spread the word in a lower level technise. To enable us we need to understand - targeted user (groups) - architecture - concept of object model and API - guts (and not only nice webpages) of successful applications of the XWiki (or is the XWikis main purpose to create nice looking webpages? I did not think so)
Uwe
THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) wrote:
I wish this were true... I don't think a second that it'll work though as: 1) users will say that they cannot document if they don't
know what
it does 2) once users know what it does, they usually go away 3) users don't like to document anymore than developers like it
:)
Your points are generally true, but when you talk of "users" you're not necessarily talking of these users. I'm talking about people like me who would have loved it if someone had just told them this or that little tidbit of information, and gladly contribute it, especially when it's in the context of the document
But I like the idea... and would be game to try it... if someone else implements it... (all my time is currently used for the 1.0 release)
The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't found an HTML DOM parser. Is there one in the myriad of libraries that come with XWiki?
-- You receive this message as a subscriber of the xwiki-users@objectweb.org mailing list. To unsubscribe: mailto:xwiki-users-unsubscribe@objectweb.org For general help: mailto:sympa@objectweb.org?subject=help ObjectWeb mailing lists service home page: http://www.objectweb.org/wws
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Xwiki.com-API-stability-and-Class-Object -model-tf3524008.html#a9861035 Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Apr 6, 2007, at 8:28 PM, THOMAS, BRIAN M ((ATTSI)) wrote:
I am entirely sympathetic to your situation, having been pretty much in the same situation about a year ago. And I believe that I agree strongly with your feelings and outlook, and I'm personally very eager to help those who are not as deeply experienced to get up the learning curve faster than I did and, as you say (if I understand you correctly) to pass it on to a yet larger and less-experienced group of users.
As to 'these' users and 'those' users, I was responding to Vincent's skepticism about people actually coming in and annotating the JavaDoc pages. Of course they wouldn't if they didn't understand them, but I would love to do this in the hope of improving the adoption of XWiki, knowing exactly what would be needed to prevent others (like me, at least) from going through the pain I went through. My explanations may still be opaque to others, but once they get through it they can share what they've learned. At any rate, providing the opportunity for experienced users of the APIs to annotate the Javadocs without disturbing the actual source code would allow people like me to share that knowledge in the most appropriate place - right alongside the official documentation.
My feeling was that Vincent was not adequately acknowledging the new class[es] of users that tools of this nature enable - those who can now create end-user applications without needing server access, and even those (like me) who stand more or less in the gap between the application builders and the raw system interfaces, who like to make the tools more robust and easier to use.
Just for the record, I'm very happy to try out new ways of doing things :-) So, go for it! Thanks -Vincent
-----Original Message----- From: Oova [mailto:ping.scan@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 2:48 PM To: xwiki-users@objectweb.org Subject: [xwiki-users] RE: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model
Guys,
I must be another breed, I barely follow you, 'these' users and 'those' users, automatically generated comment pages for users to fill it out, etc..... I am just lost or too old fashioned. My humble opinion is as follows. In house building as in software, if you want to enable somebody else to build an application (house) you give them a description, what kind of particular applications (houses) you especially are qualified to help building FASTER and BETTER than usual (Benefits overview and tools to gain those benefits). You also write, what kind of skill set might be useful to take advantage of the tools your provide. Then you provide the architecture (blueprint, ....) and explain what kind of interfaces (for walls, windows, plumbing, roofing,...) you created to enable others to build. To expedite the break-in you give some sample applications illustrating how the architecture, interfaces and tools helped gain the benefits for some use cases. And I am sorry, no offense, you do not ask the engineer who designed the software kit/ housing builder kit do document it, otherwise it becomes a kit from highly skilled engineers for other highly skilled engineers written in a highly specialized technise language, which the target audience might not speak. You normally ask a guinea pig out of the targeted audience to try to document, what it understands and let it build at least one application (house) using the tools provided. And you nurture the guinea pig with enough food, encouragement and help, so the snowball effect making the whole target audience aware of your great stuff can start and you as the engineer can go back cranking out the next great SW and tool for even better applications and houses. Making sense? Any agreement? I am a guinea pig, I am eager to use Xwiki, because for some reason, I think XWiki is a great concept (don't let me go into the 'Crossing the chasm modeling, or the 4 steps of the epiphany', both great models of how to establish innovation in the market place successfully and go beyond the innovator's initial excitement). But you need to let the targeted audience pick-up the momentum.
Enough Philosophy, if there is any agreement on what I said before, let me, Guillaume and other 'users' spread the word in a lower level technise. To enable us we need to understand - targeted user (groups) - architecture - concept of object model and API - guts (and not only nice webpages) of successful applications of the XWiki (or is the XWikis main purpose to create nice looking webpages? I did not think so)
Uwe
THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) wrote:
I wish this were true... I don't think a second that it'll work though as: 1) users will say that they cannot document if they don't
know what
it does 2) once users know what it does, they usually go away 3) users don't like to document anymore than developers like it
:)
Your points are generally true, but when you talk of "users" you're not necessarily talking of these users. I'm talking about people like me who would have loved it if someone had just told them this or that little tidbit of information, and gladly contribute it, especially when it's in the context of the document
But I like the idea... and would be game to try it... if someone else implements it... (all my time is currently used for the 1.0 release)
The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't found an HTML DOM parser. Is there one in the myriad of libraries that come with XWiki?
-- You receive this message as a subscriber of the xwiki-users@objectweb.org mailing list. To unsubscribe: mailto:xwiki-users-unsubscribe@objectweb.org For general help: mailto:sympa@objectweb.org?subject=help ObjectWeb mailing lists service home page: http://www.objectweb.org/wws
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Xwiki.com-API-stability-and-Class-Object -model-tf3524008.html#a9861035 Sent from the XWiki- Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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On 4/4/07, THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) <bt0008@att.com> wrote:
The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't found an HTML DOM parser. Is there one in the myriad of libraries that come with XWiki?
What do you mean by "HTML DOM parser"? You can use any DOM parser as long as it's well formed XML, and it should be. -- http://purl.org/net/sergiu
Ah. I may be confusing some other efforts I made at getting that to work, which were plain HTML from an internal site. The dom4j parser choked on that, understandably. I have already done a successful parse of an XML-based internal web site, as I mentioned earlier, to get our organizational structure and display it with related information from the wiki and other sites, which was fairly impressive, since it showed a tree of people whose names were shown as links to their XWiki profiles, with the presence indicator image as a link to open a session with them in our enterprise IM service. It occurs to me that this could actually be done via XSLT, and the user comments could just be added as XWiki objects in the page. I don't know anything yet about XSLT, but I think I'm going to learn pretty quickly... brain[sic] ________________________________ From: Sergiu Dumitriu [mailto:sergiu.dumitriu@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 4:16 PM To: xwiki-users@objectweb.org Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model On 4/4/07, THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) <bt0008@att.com> wrote: The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't found an HTML DOM parser. Is there one in the myriad of libraries that come with XWiki? What do you mean by "HTML DOM parser"? You can use any DOM parser as long as it's well formed XML, and it should be. -- http://purl.org/net/sergiu
________________________________ From: Sergiu Dumitriu [mailto:sergiu.dumitriu@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 4:16 PM To: xwiki-users@objectweb.org Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model On 4/4/07, THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) <bt0008@att.com> wrote: The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't found an HTML DOM parser. Is there one in the myriad of libraries that come with XWiki? What do you mean by "HTML DOM parser"? You can use any DOM parser as long as it's well formed XML, and it should be. -- http://purl.org/net/sergiu Unfortunately, it isn't: Nested exception: org.xml.sax.SAXParseException: The declaration for the entity "HTML.Version" must end with '>'. This exception is thrown regardless of which of the javadoc pages I use...
On Apr 06, THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) wrote :
From: Sergiu Dumitriu [mailto:sergiu.dumitriu@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 4:16 PM To: xwiki-users@objectweb.org Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model
On 4/4/07, THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) <bt0008@att.com> wrote:
The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't found an HTML DOM parser. Is there one in the myriad of libraries that come with XWiki?
What do you mean by "HTML DOM parser"? You can use any DOM parser as long as it's well formed XML, and it should be.
Unfortunately, it isn't:
Nested exception: org.xml.sax.SAXParseException: The declaration for the entity "HTML.Version" must end with '>'.
This exception is thrown regardless of which of the javadoc pages I use...
Just my two cents: you might have a look at TagSoup (http://home.ccil.org/~cowan/XML/tagsoup/) or JTidy (http://jtidy.sourceforge.net/) which I think is distributed already as part of XWiki, those should help you when dealing with non xml-valid HTML. Pablo
Pablo: Yes, I found the JTidy package (as an option to another one in XWiki's libs), but the HTML parser's constructor seemed to depend on some other stuff that I don't think I can synthesize; I think there's yet another one in the XWiki distribution, but I haven't looked at it yet (low priority for now). Of course, I can always use Javascript, yuck (not that I dislike it per se, but due to the hegemonious lusts of a certain corporation - the bane of my professional existence, which I am ashamed to say is from my own country - cross-browser compatibility rates just above un-anaesthetized oral surgery on my personal list of preferences)... I will investigate TagSoup, though; thanks. brain[sic]
-----Original Message----- From: Pablo Oliveira [mailto:pablo.oliveira@enst.fr] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 9:07 AM To: xwiki-users@objectweb.org Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model
On Apr 06, THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) wrote :
From: Sergiu Dumitriu [mailto:sergiu.dumitriu@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 4:16 PM To: xwiki-users@objectweb.org Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model
On 4/4/07, THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) <bt0008@att.com> wrote:
The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't found an HTML DOM parser. Is there one in the myriad of libraries that come with XWiki?
What do you mean by "HTML DOM parser"? You can use any DOM parser as long as it's well formed XML, and it should be.
Unfortunately, it isn't:
Nested exception: org.xml.sax.SAXParseException: The declaration for the entity "HTML.Version" must end with '>'.
This exception is thrown regardless of which of the javadoc pages I use...
Just my two cents: you might have a look at TagSoup (http://home.ccil.org/~cowan/XML/tagsoup/) or JTidy (http://jtidy.sourceforge.net/) which I think is distributed already as part of XWiki, those should help you when dealing with non xml-valid HTML.
Pablo
vmassol wrote:
- How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism available?
Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!
I was looking for import/export with search function and found one relevant document from you http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which doesn't apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?
ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't apply to users of the farm?
Thanks -Vincent I am confused: are you asking me to do all the installation steps in order to archive my own code? That is how I understand the guide. I expected an import/export function, which allows me to archive/recreate content I wrote independent of what database, development environment etc. is used. Are you saying I gave to recreate all that short of hosting it to dump my code in it?
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On Apr 5, 2007, at 9:03 PM, Oova wrote:
vmassol wrote:
- How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism available?
Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!
I was looking for import/export with search function and found one relevant document from you http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which doesn't apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?
ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't apply to users of the farm?
Thanks -Vincent I am confused: are you asking me to do all the installation steps in order to archive my own code? That is how I understand the guide. I expected an import/export function, which allows me to archive/ recreate content I wrote independent of what database, development environment etc. is used. Are you saying I gave to recreate all that short of hosting it to dump my code in it?
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if your xwiki on xwiki.com is using the XWiki 1.0 skin (named xwiki10b1 on xwiki.com as it's using version 1.0 B3) then you should see the import/export feature (provided you're admin of your site - This is where I'm not entirely sure. I don't know if you get admin rights on the farm). Thanks -Vincent
I seem to be the admin of my site, since i was the creator and have all other admin menu items available but have no menu item for import/export. Any way you can think of getting me those rights? uwe vmassol wrote:
On Apr 5, 2007, at 9:03 PM, Oova wrote:
vmassol wrote:
- How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism available?
Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!
I was looking for import/export with search function and found one relevant document from you http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which doesn't apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?
ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't apply to users of the farm?
Thanks -Vincent I am confused: are you asking me to do all the installation steps in order to archive my own code? That is how I understand the guide. I expected an import/export function, which allows me to archive/ recreate content I wrote independent of what database, development environment etc. is used. Are you saying I gave to recreate all that short of hosting it to dump my code in it?
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if your xwiki on xwiki.com is using the XWiki 1.0 skin (named xwiki10b1 on xwiki.com as it's using version 1.0 B3) then you should see the import/export feature (provided you're admin of your site - This is where I'm not entirely sure. I don't know if you get admin rights on the farm).
Thanks -Vincent
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Hi Uwe, On 4/5/07, Vincent Massol <vincent@massol.net> wrote:
On Apr 5, 2007, at 9:03 PM, Oova wrote:
vmassol wrote:
- How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism available?
Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!
I was looking for import/export with search function and found one relevant document from you http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which doesn't apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?
ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't apply to users of the farm?
Thanks -Vincent I am confused: are you asking me to do all the installation steps in order to archive my own code? That is how I understand the guide. I expected an import/export function, which allows me to archive/ recreate content I wrote independent of what database, development environment etc. is used. Are you saying I gave to recreate all that short of hosting it to dump my code in it?
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if your xwiki on xwiki.com is using the XWiki 1.0 skin (named xwiki10b1 on xwiki.com as it's using version 1.0 B3) then you should see the import/export feature (provided you're admin of your site - This is where I'm not entirely sure. I don't know if you get admin rights on the farm).
Go to: http://YOURWIKI.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/edit/XWiki/XWikiPreferences?xpage=editob... (you can find it in the menu somewhere too as More Options ->Global Preferences I think) Select the Skin object and change the skin field to xwiki10b1. OR, at your choice, just visit: http://YOURWIKI.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Main?skin=xwiki10b1 Regards, Catalin
Anyboy, could you please help me with the below one? Thanks in advance
- How do I use the property "Database List Class", it seems very powerful in creating dynamic lists of values, references to other objects etc. but I am unable to decipher how to use it.
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Hi, A DatabaseList consists of a query that returns the entries in the list. 1. The query is written using HQL (Hibernate Query Language), a SQL-like language. I can't explain the data model it works with, but you can search the various pages where it is used (search for documents containing $xwiki.search or searchDocuments). 2. If it returns one value per result, it will be used as the list entry value and displayed text. If it returns two or more values per result, the first part is used as the value, while the second one is used as the displayed text. 3. You can configure the list, specifying how it is displayed (drop-down, radio buttons, checkboxes), whether it allows single or multiple selection, the site of the drop-down, and some other properties. Hope this helps a bit. On 4/5/07, Oova <ping.scan@gmail.com> wrote:
Anyboy, could you please help me with the below one? Thanks in advance
- How do I use the property "Database List Class", it seems very powerful in creating dynamic lists of values, references to other objects etc. but I am unable to decipher how to use it.
Sergiu -- http://purl.org/net/sergiu
participants (7)
-
Catalin Hritcu -
Guillaume Lerouge -
Oova -
Pablo Oliveira -
Sergiu Dumitriu -
THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) -
Vincent Massol